Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site azure.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!teklds!azure!chrisa From: chrisa@azure.UUCP (Chris Andersen) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Hurting the other by a "no" Message-ID: <392@azure.UUCP> Date: Tue, 30-Jul-85 22:12:51 EDT Article-I.D.: azure.392 Posted: Tue Jul 30 22:12:51 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 2-Aug-85 21:54:25 EDT References: <5557@cbscc.UUCP> <591@unc.UUCP> Reply-To: chrisa@azure.UUCP (Chris Andersen) Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR Lines: 68 In article <1347@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: > > [ paraphrasing ] >You may not have the responsibility, but then neither does any other person. . >The state of your mind is dictated by all the circumstances and events in >your life that got you to where you are now. . >Are those circumstances anybody else's "fault"? No one has TOTAL responsibility for any one persons actions, but that does not mean that NO ONE has ANY responsibility. We do share responsibilities, but one cannot depend totally on others to be responsible for you. First, and foremost, you have to be responsible for oneself before you can go around expecting anyone to take any responsibility for you. The state of your is PARTIALLY dictated by all the circumstances and events in your life that got you to where you are now. The other half of the picture is how each one of us INTERPRETS and REACTS to those circumstances. Of course, one might say that the way we interpret and react is also dicateted by past events. In other words, we act because of past events, but past events occured because of how we acted, but we acted because of even earlier events which were dictated by how we acted, etc. etc. etc. This gets us no where mighty fast. Also, this is not a discussion on "fault" and blame. It is about "responsibility". Something else entirely. >Take the raising of a child that experiences the type of >family life laced with marital violence we've been discussing. Is it the >child's "fault" if he/she is brought up to expect the same sort of marriage >life, and to act it out? Does the child have a "choice" to live through and >integrate that experience or not? Is it the parents' "fault" when they >probably lived through the same thing? Pinning blame is not the answer, and >that is all this "taking responsibility (for things you can't control)" >concept really accomplishes. It is not the child's "fault", of course not. Don't even suggest that what I (and probably others) are doing is trying to pin blame. I think (if I can be allowed to speak for others) we are trying to suggest that before one can overcome a problem one must be willing to accept the responsibility FOR SOLVING THAT PROBLEM. Not so much for the problem itself (THAT is trying to pin the blame, which accomplishes nothing). In the case of the child of marital violence: Yes, the child does have a choice to integrate that experience or not. Of course, s/he must first become aware of how those experiences will effect him/her, and this is where programs on marital abuse come in. These programs should not be designed so much to "cure" the abuser as it show the abuser what s/he is doing. From then on, IT IS the abuser responsibility AND NO ONE ELSES to take that first step tworads curing themself. Frankly, I think I and Rich agree a lot more then these banterings back and forth seem to indicate. Were arguing more over semantics then anything else. Oh Well. Life, Love, Laughter, and Hope, Chris Andersen -- tektronix!azure!chrisa