Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site timeinc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!timeinc!greenber From: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Anti-rape tactics - a conundrum Message-ID: <330@timeinc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 18-Jul-85 20:48:29 EDT Article-I.D.: timeinc.330 Posted: Thu Jul 18 20:48:29 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 21-Jul-85 02:59:15 EDT References: <392@mit-vax.UUCP> <2432@sun.uucp> Reply-To: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) Organization: Time, Inc. - New York Lines: 89 In article <2432@sun.uucp> sunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) writes: (Quoting someone else): >> >> ....Presumably, if some man >> is at a party, he's known to the hosts and others there.... >> ...if he misbehaves he's in deep shit with his peer group. > >Is he truly in trouble with his peer group, or only if the rapee is an >intimate of one of the men in his peer group? How silly of me. I've always been concerned with women getting raped, whether friend, aquaintance, stranger, or intimate. Now Sunny speaks, and tells me that I'm only concerned if the women is an intimate of mine. So that's how a "real" man acts, according to Sunny! You're doin' a lot of good, Sunny! At least I don't have to question myself or other men about our inherent beliefs: you've defined them for me. Thanks! > >It doesn't matter how many times women try to point the discussion at the >root problem in this (or any other forum), the men always redirect the >discussion back at the women (it's the way they dress...) >or back at the symptoms (I'll protect the women I care about). > Enough of this BULLSHIT! You are convinced that it is men's total responsibility to eradicate rape. Fine. You're right. YOU TELL US HOW TO DO IT. GIVE CONCRETE EXAMPLES THAT ARE ALREADY PROVEN TO WORK, AND TO WORK IMMEDIATELY. AND TO WORK FOR ALL SOCIETIES, AND ALL WOMEN. If you have nothing to add that is positive, or even credible, then stay the hell out of the discussion! I'll give you a hint: try not to tell me that *I* am responsible for rape, simply because of my penis. Treat me like a person. Rape is something that effects all of us -- it is a sickness in society, and something that should be eradicated by society. Not by any one group within society. >That still leaves us with an overall attitude that men on the whole won't >take responsibility for their actions or the actions of their peers. > AGAIN?!?!?! Who the hell are *you* representing that gives you the right to speak for me? Or are you instead, from your high ivory tower, trying to judge me? GRRRRRRR! And what happened to *people* being responsible for their actions or the actions of their peers? Suddenly this is a man's province? Are you representing that you (as a women) would rather that men deal with the dirty details of justice? How long will you continue to whine about injustice, and hope that somebody, somewhere will magically fix it for you? The population has more women than men in it. The US is run sorta like a democracy. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILTY INHERENT IN BEING A PERSON? If women wanted something badly enough, they could easily sweep the polls. (I know....the International Conspiracy Of Men Against Women...we purposely keep women ignorant of their power, right? Don't bore me Sunny, think up a new fantasy, ok?) > >p.p.s. Not until men view women as equals will any of these problems end. > OK, men, how about organizing a push for the Equal Rights Ammendment? > or is it that WASPS, black jews, purple people eaters, and all other > men of every race, religion, creed, etc. have equal rights, but > women don't? Not until *you* view men as worthwhile people, and that their existance is not just to cause you grief. BTW.....Since there are more women capable of voting than men, why was ERA defeated? I just finished paying my ex-wife some money the courts decided she needed based on her sex, so maybe I'm not the right person to ask. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ross M. Greenberg @ Time Inc, New York --------->{vax135 | ihnp4}!timeinc!greenber<--------- I highly doubt that Time Inc. would make me their spokesperson. ---- "I was riding a wombat this morning, 'till it broke its leg. I had to shoot it" -- Ranger on Camel