Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.PCS 1/10/84; site mtgzz.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!drutx!mtuxo!mtgzz!seb From: seb@mtgzz.UUCP (s.e.badian) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Madonna's image (long but I had fun writing it!) Message-ID: <979@mtgzz.UUCP> Date: Fri, 26-Jul-85 20:57:09 EDT Article-I.D.: mtgzz.979 Posted: Fri Jul 26 20:57:09 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 29-Jul-85 06:10:29 EDT Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Holmdel NJ Lines: 144 >> me (s.badian) > doug alan >> I think Madonna has a great deal going. She knows exactly how to get >> everyone hot and spend money on her albums and concerts. >No one would argue that she's raking in the dough. But by this >argument, the Mafia has a great deal going too. I wouldn't do what >Madonna is doing no matter how wealthy it would make me! How can you compare what the Mafia does with what Madonna does? What does Madonna do that is so awful? I have yet to hear anything terrible about Madonna in the media. I have heard a lot of hearsay from people on the net about the horrible things Madonna does and stands for. So far I haven't seen anything to corroborate the crap that's been slung about. >> I've heard Madonna give interviews and she's no gum-chewing, "boy >> toy" idiot. She has a gimmick and she's playing it to the hilt. >We should all have the highest respect for those who find a gimmick and >play it to the hilt, shouldn't we? This sort of stuff is great for >society! Right! Oh please! If we say that Madonna does damage to society by portraying an image that doesn't agree with the status quo, well, we might as well ban Madonna along with the Rolling Stones, the Grateful Dead and Led Zeppelin. All of these rock stars play off their image as perceived by America's youth. None of them have particularly sterling characters either. But I don't think watching them or listen- ing to them enforces deviant behavior in teenagers. Gimmik obviously has a negative connotation in the second quote. In my mind, this isn't fair. Lots of people have gimmacks. Liberace wears outrageous clothes. So does Elton John. The Rolling Stones are risque(well, they were once). Do we have less or more respect for them because they do? I don't think it matters a hell of a lot! The fact is that Liberace dresses wild and no one screams about him making money off his "gimmick", but Madonna does and it's an issue. >> She plays on sexuality. She plays on the fact that sex is still taboo. >And thus perpetuating that sex is taboo and all the unhealthy hang-ups >about sex people have. This is good? Are you making this up? I don't think Madonna's image reinforces the idea that sex is taboo. I think it reinforces the idea that sex is taboo among people who still believe sex is wrong because it scares the living tar out of them. People who haven't come to grips with their own sexuality are generally terrified of someone with a freer sexual outlook. (I can smell smoke for that last comment :-)) >> She represents raw sexuality. She picks no bones about it. >She represents fetishistic sexuality, rather than natural healthy >sexuality. What observations or facts do you base this statement on? You can't just make up things or give us YOUR own view of the situation and expect to convince the rest of us. I have seen no trace of fetish- istic sex in Madonna. She's pretty tame. In the movie "Desperately Seeking Susan" you get the feeling that her character's been around, but she seems to be pretty normal. A bit spacey, tough, streetwise, but basically normal. I don't even know if that's what Madonna is like! > What does her appeal say about teenagers? >>That they're being imprinted with an unhealthy and undesirable view of sex. What I've heard is that teenage girls are dressing like her and teenage boys find her sexy. Compared to the cardboard idols of the 70's (Farrah Fawcett comes to mind) I'd take Madonna anyday. Madonna is independent. She has decided her own destiny. For a little background for all you gossips, Madonna was hired by some rich guy to sit around and look pretty. She was essentially a model. She made a lot of money at this, I heard. But she quickly bored of it and deciced to follow her dream - to sing. >> And there is no denying that both Jackson and Madonna have strong >> images, images specially crafted to appeal to today's teenagers raised >> on MTV. These people are in it to make money, not corrupt our nation's >> youth. It's amazing how much flak they generate. >That's right! Music should be a calculated product. Not an art form! Good thing you're not in music. You'd be starving. The music should be art(though to class any popular music in the same class as Mozart is pretty disgusting), but there is nothing that says that the presentation shouldn't attract as much attention as possible. Image sells records just as much as music. As for music being calculated, I doubt very much that Madonna sat down and said "Gee, I better write some songs that will appeal to the teenagers out there." >> And besides, I don't really care a heck of a lot if Madonna's pictures >> got into Playboy and Penthouse. >There's nothing wrong with nudity. One can present a healthy and >natural image with one's cloths on or off. And one can present an >unhealthy, fetishistic image with one's clothes on or off. Madonna does >the latter with her clothes on and (I presume) with her clothes off. You couldn't convince me of this before and I still don't believe it. From what I've heard the pictures were pretty tame. I think the problem with Madonna is what goes on between your eyes and you brain, Doug. > I don't think she's a bad role model for young women. She's > independent, she knows what she wants and knows how to get it. >Perfect for the yuppie culture, huh? Who cares about integrity? By this statement, you are assuming that Madonna is doing something illegal or immoral to get what she wants. Prove it. And while you're at it, why don't you show us how you get what you want out of life if you don't know what you want and don't know how to get it. >> She's not the typical sex toy since she knows what she's doing and is >> controling her life by playing off the weakness men have for her. >How beneficial a role model! Just what we need! A whole generation of >manipulative bitches/bastards! Ah, so we see that women like Madonna scare you? Does Marilyn Monroe scare you? From my point of view she played off of the weakness that men had for her(she was sexy and beautiful). She just did it in a more palatable form. She played the weak female who needed male protection, just like most of the sex symbols of old. Now Madonna comes along and shows us a strong, independent woman who takes the old trappings and does it her way. She's not weak. She doesn't need men to take care of her. >> I'm really quite sick of the stink over Madonna. >I'm really quite sick of Madonna, and hope she soon fades into the >obscurity she so richly deserves. This is your opinion, to which you are entitled. I will continue to enjoy some of her songs, as will lots of other people. Sharon Badian ihnp4!mtgzz!seb