Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site mhuxr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mfs From: mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Equal access to pleasure Message-ID: <406@mhuxr.UUCP> Date: Wed, 28-Aug-85 15:25:36 EDT Article-I.D.: mhuxr.406 Posted: Wed Aug 28 15:25:36 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 30-Aug-85 07:49:05 EDT References: <661@ttidcc.UUCP> <14939@mgwess.UUCP> <396@mhuxr.UUCP> <888@brl-tgr.ARPA> <404@mhuxr.UUCP> <11189@rochester.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill Lines: 72 > > ME > Ray Frank > > The fact, sir, is that unwanted pregnancies and children > > have a cost, and that cost is borne by women, not as a consequence of > > biology, but because of social policies. By seeking to remove what recourse > > women have to reduce such a cost, pro-lifers are increasing it. Mr Frank writes a stream-of-consciousness article having much to do with one night stands and Mr. Frank's attitudes toward sex, but little with my point. Mr. Frank's article is included at the end of this, for reference. To repeat, then: Because of the tilts of current social policy, the father is able and allowed to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy; the mother is not. Mr Frank has cited the Reagan Administration's efforts to track wayward fathers and force them to ante up child support. That works for middle class fathers who are able to ante up, but not when the father is indigent, or in cases of rape (rare, yes, but it occurs), and meanwhile, the mother is still stuck with a pregnancy she does not want. I would have a good deal more sympathy with Mr. Frank's anti-abortion position if he were ALSO, and just as virulently, campaigning FOR the universal availability of birth control, for an expansion of the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program, for the universal availibility of day care, for expanded school facilities, and generally the strenghtening of the social safety net. Only AFTER you have done something to help the suffering of the born, sir, can you talk to me of the suffering of the unborn. Marcel Simon Mr Frank's article: > To what degree should fathers be tracked down? > Ever hear of one nignt stands (I call it mutual masturbation)? It happens to > a great extent in women getting pregnant. You don't know each other and don't > owe each other anything the next morning or at 4am when you part and go > your seperate ways forever. No one should bear the responsiblily of your > irresponsiblity, and that includes the male involved. Both of you entered > into an unwritten aggreement at the bar or where ever you met. We are strangers > and mean nothing to each other after tonight, for tommorrow or next week I'll > be at it again. If the male gets VD, he has no recourse in terms of making > the women pay for his treatment. If the women gets VD or gets pregnant she > as well should have no recourse in making the male pay. > It would seem silly if a women tracked down the father of her baby and stated > that out of the dozens or more guys I've been with you are the father and now > I want you to build your life around me, marry me, or pay for my abortion, or > pay child support, built me a house, go to work everyday for the next 20 years > and pay one quarter of your wages to me and your child, and all this because > of 30 minutes of idle meaningless dribble in a bar and a hop in the sack. > Not a very sound base with which to build a life on. > If you play you must pay means YOU must pay not someone else. > But you say, what about the male, he goes merrily on his way? Sometimes yes, > sometimes no. He may be emotionaly distraught at times because he's been > hooked on one of his triumphs and there is no return of affection. Or perhaps > there is a return of affection and a relationship develops, they fall in love > only to discover she is pregnant by some other casanova, marries her, and > supports her and someone elses child. No one gets off scott free in this world > for anything, what goes around comes around. > I've known many males who've married their dream girl who was raising a child > out of wedlock. So he's not supporting someone he's made pregnant, but he is > supporting some other males child. > But again you may say; OK, great, now I'm pregnant. I have to build my life > around an unwanted child because of those 30 minutes of blah, blah, blah. If you > got herpes your life style would change, if you got AIDS your life would perhapsend. If you got pregnant and then an abortion and the abortion screwed up your > reproductive system, you would still end up with an altered life style. > The point is that it is not always a pregnancy that alters one's life style. > Or that someone can come around and make it all better, such as finding the > father and making him pay. There are things in this life that only YOU are > responsible for and only YOU will be made to pay the price for because your > actions are in fact YOURS. On abortion, I don't believe that the fetus should > be made to bear the responsiblilty of the actions of the mother by aborting it. > Yea, I know I'll get flamed for saying this and probably for a lot of the above,but on the subject of abortions and sexuality, how can anyone say anything > without inflaming someone. I'll just have to take my chances.