Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dcc1.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gatech!dcc1!unixcorn From: unixcorn@dcc1.UUCP (math.c) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Equal access to pleasure (ridiculously long) Message-ID: <154@dcc1.UUCP> Date: Thu, 5-Sep-85 00:14:10 EDT Article-I.D.: dcc1.154 Posted: Thu Sep 5 00:14:10 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 6-Sep-85 03:20:51 EDT References: <661@ttidcc.UUCP> <14939@mgwess.UUCP> Reply-To: unixcorn@dcc1.UUCP (math.c) Organization: DeKalb Community College, Clarkston GA Lines: 132 Summary: Much of this has appeared before Ok, I tried before to trim the length of this article, this time I won't. Mr. Frank > >My posting was in response to another posting concerning the issue of tracking >down fathers, not in response to the issue of abortion. I did briefly mention >my views on abortion, but the text mainly covered my feelings on tracking down >fathers as a result of 'enlightened' sexual encounters. By the way, is it >clear that it can always be determined with certainty who the real father is? No, it cannot be determined with absolute certainty. >> I am PRO-CHOICE (and rabid on the subject) but I can understand (though >> not support) those whose life-code (from whatever basis) makes them >> feel abortion is wrong, wrong, wrong. The attitude displayed in your >> posting is the classic "you made your bed you dirty slut now raise >> your bastard yourself". This is in no way an attitude which will cut >> down on abortion/unwanted pregnancy etc. >You said 'dirty slut' not me. Is this what you think of people who engage >in loveless sex? No, but it is a phrase I have heard used. (A thought, what is the term used for a 'male slut' anyway. Is there one?) >What a hack job you've done on my posting. You completely edited out anything >that I posted concerning the males responsiblity. Is this typical of people >who are 'rabid' on the subjects being debated. You seem like an enlightened >person, you must be for freedom of speech, why did you edit out the part about >the males responsibility and then have the ignorance to ask the me about the >males responsibility? Mr Frank's article: (My remarks preceeded by *, so I won't edit out anything about the males responsiblity.) > To what degree should fathers be tracked down? > Ever hear of one nignt stands (I call it mutual masturbation)? It happens to > a great extent in women getting pregnant. You don't know each other and don't > owe each other anything the next morning or at 4am when you part and go > your seperate ways forever. No one should bear the responsiblily of your > irresponsiblity, and that includes the male involved. Both of you entered > into an unwritten aggreement at the bar or where ever you met. We are strangers > and mean nothing to each other after tonight, for tommorrow or next week I'll > be at it again. If the male gets VD, he has no recourse in terms of making > the women pay for his treatment. If the women gets VD or gets pregnant she > as well should have no recourse in making the male pay. ** The female in this account has the same risk as the male of contracting VD (in whatever form), only the female has the risk of pregnancy added. If the pregnancy is not terminated, and a child is born, someone must pay for its upbringing.(The mother, the father, the adoptive parents, the govt (which means all of us) but someone.) Since the father had just as much to do with the child's conception as the mother, why shouldn't he pay half? > It would seem silly if a women tracked down the father of her baby and stated > that out of the dozens or more guys I've been with you are the father and now > I want you to build your life around me, marry me, or pay for my abortion, or > pay child support, built me a house, go to work everyday for the next 20 years > and pay one quarter of your wages to me and your child, and all this because > of 30 minutes of idle meaningless dribble in a bar and a hop in the sack. > Not a very sound base with which to build a life on. ** I agree that a child alone is no reason to build a relationship between two people who don't desire one. I don't advocate such a relationship. I do think that the male bears one half of any responsibility for the child. > If you play you must pay means YOU must pay not someone else. > But you say, what about the male, he goes merrily on his way? Sometimes yes, > sometimes no. He may be emotionaly distraught at times because he's been > hooked on one of his triumphs and there is no return of affection. Or perhaps > there is a return of affection and a relationship develops, they fall in love > only to discover she is pregnant by some other casanova, marries her, and > supports her and someone elses child. No one gets off scott free in this world > for anything, what goes around comes around. > I've known many males who've married their dream girl who was raising a child > out of wedlock. So he's not supporting someone he's made pregnant, but he is > supporting some other males child. ** That was the part I had previously deleted. Here goes... Falling in love is AGAIN an equal danger for male and female. Marrying someone and supporting anothers child is also an equal probability for males and females. Fathers bring children into marriages too, many women take care of children they didn't bear, (In fact, what do you think adoption is???) why should it matter to someone who found their 'dream girl' if she has a child? If it does, she isn't their dream girl. > But again you may say; OK, great, now I'm pregnant. I have to build my life > around an unwanted child because of those 30 minutes of blah, blah, blah. If you > got herpes your life style would change, if you got AIDS your life would perhapsend. If you got pregnant and then an abortion and the abortion screwed up your > reproductive system, you would still end up with an altered life style. > The point is that it is not always a pregnancy that alters one's life style. > Or that someone can come around and make it all better, such as finding the > father and making him pay. There are things in this life that only YOU are > responsible for and only YOU will be made to pay the price for because your > actions are in fact YOURS. On abortion, I don't believe that the fetus should > be made to bear the responsiblilty of the actions of the mother by aborting it. ** NOW, here we go again... WHY is the responsibility cited here the FEMALES and only hers? The pregnancy talked about is affecting the woman, not the man (remember the one night stand). The decision to have sex was mutual, the dangers of VD were mutual, the possibility of unrequited love was mutual, the possibilities of birth control were mutual, SO WHY IS THE RESPONSIBILITY ALL HERS? Half of that genetic material came from the man. This article was primarily about hunting down absent fathers to make them pay child support so I address most of my comments toward that end. I still (I said I was rabid on it) say that since the woman is the one most affected, she is the one to make the decision whether or not to abort the pregnancy. Mr. Frank doesn't even want her to have child support to raise the child he requires her to bear since he doesn't want to allow abortion. > Yea, I know I'll get flamed for saying this and probably for a lot of the above,but on the subject of abortions and sexuality, how can anyone say anything > without inflaming someone. I'll just have to take my chances. So, I'm sorry I may have removed the important part about the man's responsibility the first time I replied. I still don't know what Mr. Frank thought was the male's responsibility. I am sure someone will point it out to me. (The bliss of ignorance is short on the net :-) -- unixcorn (alias m. gould) "there's a unicorn in the garden and he's eating a lily" gatech!dcc1!unixcorn