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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: Rich Rosens point of demarcation.
Message-ID: <1657@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 7-Sep-85 19:40:57 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1657
Posted: Sat Sep  7 19:40:57 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 9-Sep-85 01:30:17 EDT
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Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
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> Rich Rosen generates a very large amount of text in this newsgroup.  I
> am not always clear on what he is saying because I don't take the time
> to carefully reread the volumes he puts out.  A good deal of the volume
> is spent on personal squabbles over terminology and methodology of
> debate that is only of marginal interest to me. [STEVE SMITH]

In many cases, the terminology is central to the issue, because misuse of
terminology can result in an abuse of language resulting in bogus manipulation
of opinion.  I know the bickering with Newton has been overly long (in
overall time and in length of individual articles), but the only way to learn
what a person is saying is to read it.

> 	1)  Does a fetus become a human being at the moment of birth?
> 	1a) What is involved in this change, is it a sharp transition?
> 	1b) Is this intended to be a legal, moral, or practical definition
> 				of "becoming human"?

By "proving" certain things, human beings gain certain rights.  By passing
a test, they become licensed drivers.  By completing a curriculum, they
gain a diploma and/or a degree.  To gain the right to be called a human
being in the first place, a physically autonomous entity and not an entity
which must live of off the body of another human being, it must be separated
from the body it has inhabited.  This is not MY definition, but a consequence
of what the biological definition of life is.  I hope this answers the
questions.  Asking these questions sounds like "Does being 18/19/20/21/30
make you an adult?  Is there a sharp transition?"  The difference in the fetus
between the moment before birth and the moment after birth is probably
minimal, as is the difference between the moments before contractions and
the moments when birth takes place.  Very few changes in the course of
fetal development are sudden.  But the difference that makes the difference
is that last one, the last step.

> 	2)  Is there anything wrong with abortion?
> 	2a) On moral grounds?
> 	2b) On practical grounds?

I may not like abortion, but I see no reason to call it "wrong".  On any
grounds.

> 	3)  Does the fact that some (many?) people find abortion
> 		offensive have any effect in this issue?
> 	3a) If not, it does seem to mean a lot in other issues such
> 		as pornography and prostitution.  Is this wrong?

What if I and a lot of other non-religious people found Christianity offensive?
We certainly have lots of reasons to do so.  If it does not harm me, if it
does not involve interference in my life, I might be disgusted by it (or not),
but that's just my opinion.  And the opinions of anyone else who agrees with
me.  It is ridiculous to legislate tastes.

> 	4)  How do you measure the value of something?
> 	4a) Is it the sum of happiness over the entire population?
> 	4b) Is there some absolute yardstick?
> 	4c) Is it immeasureable?
> 	4d) Is it completely relative?

I assume this is a leading question about "the value of human beings".  Clearly
we value human beings because WE are human beings, and because anything we
allow to be done to human beings could eventually be done to us.  That's how
I measure that value.  Is there an absolute yardstick?  Of course not.  How
much do animals value humans?  (For example.)
-- 
"iY AHORA, INFORMACION INTERESANTE ACERCA DE... LA LLAMA!"
	Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr