Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mnetor.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcs!mnetor!sophie From: sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Can we make progress? Message-ID: <2173@mnetor.UUCP> Date: Fri, 13-Sep-85 11:40:22 EDT Article-I.D.: mnetor.2173 Posted: Fri Sep 13 11:40:22 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 13-Sep-85 13:35:19 EDT References: <30381@lanl.ARPA> <265@bcsaic.UUCP> <11440@rochester.UUCP> <426@mhuxr.UUCP> <338@we53.UUCP> <427@mhuxr.UUCP> <340@we53.UUCP> Reply-To: sophie@mnetor.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada Lines: 129 Summary: In article <340@we53.UUCP> bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas ) writes: > >What >you and they don't seem to understand is that outside of marriage it's [sex] a >bad choice, whether it agrees with your religion or not. If you swallow >poison, you're going to get sick whether or not you believe it's poisonous. Why is sex outside of marriage bad? why is marriage an antidote to the sexual poison? >>It is one thing to remain virginal >>until marriage, quite another to get to your wedding night without the faintest >>idea what is going to happen or why! I have known several people who >>have found themselves in that situation and they invariably suffered for it. > >I know several who waited, too, like I said before, and they didn't suffer >for it. Good for them. So you both have contradictory evidence? just goes to show that people are different. Some people are better off having had pre-marital sex and some are not. Nothing extraorinary about that. It just shows that there is not ONE set of behaviour that will suit everybody. >How did they suffer? Because they had to learn together how to satisfy >each other? And Planned Parenthood is perpetrating the lie that you can >have your cake and eat it too. Why is that a lie? >The thing that kids need most to know is >not how to do it, but how to keep from doing it. You're still missing the >point. It is NOT good for young people to experiment with sex. Why not? >I'm not >trying to make anyone unhappy, just point out the *F*A*C*T* that casual sex >is not good for anyone, whether they agree or not. So how do you define "good" and "bad"? it sounds as though you have decided that pre-marital sex is BAD and that's that. Do you really expect to convince people with that kind of non-argumentation? Capitalising words and putting little stars in them does not constitute a proper argument. I also like your "whether they agree or not". You are basically saying that anybody who disagrees with you is wrong. Who are you, God? Beware, you are pretty close to committing blasphemy there. Also, why do you equate experimentation with sex to be "casual sex". I had sex when I was a teenager, and I stayed with my first lover for five years, much longer than a lot of marriages last. I don't see why the fact that I was young and unmarried made it "casual". I've had some casual sex since, as an adult. It's certainly not my preferred way of having it and I'm pretty happy being monogamous again, but it was an interesting experience. I don't think it harmed me, but it satisfied a certain curiosity. Actually, I've been harmed by certain relationships, but the sex had nothing to do with it, it was the personality of the people involved. Ah, but yes, sex is bad, I guess, it must have been the sex. Sorry I slipped there for a moment and dared use my intelligence instead of the authority of a complete stranger to analyse my own life. I guess my parents and friends are probably wrong too, to agree with me. It was the sex! >>But if sex is so much "FUN!", why wait until marriage, especially if you decide >>not to get married for a while? Is the argument "sex is for married people >>only, junior" "But why daddy?" Why indeed? Religious reasons? > >No. Practical reasons. It may feel good now, son, but afterwards it will do >you harm. Just like lots of other things that I've taught you that seem good >at the time but later get you into trouble. Like eating too much ice cream. Oh, I see, unmarried people are not able to control their sexual appetite. Listen, buddy, I don't know what YOU did before you were married (no, I don't want to know either), but I sure wish you would speak for yourself. We are not as depraved as it seems you were before you were married. Why did marriage change you anyway. Once a sinner, always a sinner, no? >> Then those >>who don't share your faith will be forgiven if they reach different >>conclusions, yes? > >Not my department. I can forgive them, but the question is, is it right? >My purpose is not to judge, but to warn of danger, and to plead the cause >of righteousness. Thank you for your forgiving. Again, be careful, there, you DO seem to have some kind of Godly complex - if sex is an offence, it is one against God, not you, so it is none of your business to forgive people unless you claim to be HIM (and the evidence seems to be mounting on this...). Plead all you want. >>Spare me the cloak of your morality, sir. I can understand opposition >>to abortion. I am willing to try an reach a compromise with those >>who would make their opposition public policy. I am not willing to >>listen to jeremiads from those who long for a golden age of >>hypocritical morality. > >I'm not certain what you mean by a cloak of morality. I am a somewhat seasoned >sinner who has seen what my doings have caused, and come for forgiveness to >someone who promised to forget my past and give me a new start. I am most Ah ha! well, again, then do please speak for yourself. It's not because YOU sinned so much that everybody else is as bad as you were. I am glad that you did find someone who was willing to give you a new start; that's nice. >It is the wrongdoing itself, not someone else's calling >it wrong, that causes guilt, sickness, and death. Extramarital sex is wrong- >doing, and the fact that your religion doesn't recognize that is a judgement >on your religion and doesn't change the truth. Nobody but God knows what THE TRUTH is. Humans and religions can only guess. >I am only asking that people open their eyes and see what's happening >all around them, and stop trading their lives for pleasures that are false and >fleeting. This is the truth, and I'd like to persuade you of it, for your >benefit and that of the whole world. Again, YOU as a human, cannot know THE truth and I think it is an offence against God to pretend you do. >(At least you called me "sir".) People usually do that when they want to be insulting. I called you "buddy". mm, not sure what that means.... <-: > >brian -- Sophie Quigley {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!mnetor!sophie