Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site cdstar.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!wjh12!cdstar!saltiel From: saltiel@cdstar.UUCP (Jack Saltiel) Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: Re: The longevity of turbos (again) Message-ID: <153@cdstar.UUCP> Date: Wed, 28-Aug-85 17:17:36 EDT Article-I.D.: cdstar.153 Posted: Wed Aug 28 17:17:36 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 31-Aug-85 05:02:53 EDT References: <4700007@labjss.UUCP> Organization: Cambridge Digital Systems, Inc. Lines: 94 Summary: turbo life expentancy ... horse feathers! In article <4700007@labjss.UUCP>, bobk@labjss.UUCP (bobk) writes: > I recently read a technical correspondance letter in Road and Track which > discussed the longevity of turbos (I DO mean the ones on engines :-) ). > > 1. Have owners of turbo cars on the net logged enough miles to have > their turbos replaced? when did it happen? > > 2. Anybody gone past 50,000 miles yet? > > 3. Were you made aware that the turbo would fail (even under 2,000 mile > oil changes) ? First of all, the guy got taken. The turbo is considered by the EPA to be an integral emmission control element in the engine's exhaust system. As such, the US Government mandates that all manufacturer's warrant them for 5 years or 50000 miles. Some dealers have been known to charge for them because the owners are not well enough informed to speak up. ( I know a fellow who went through 3 turbos on a SAAB before 50000 miles, but that's another story altogether.) I have owned various turbo powered cars and continue to own them. There is absolutely no reason to expect turbos to *need* replacement at 40000 miles, regardless of maintenance. Generally, a well maintained turbo will last more than twice that, however, it is very easy to reduce the life of a turbocharger. ( More about that later.) My last SAAB turbo had 60K miles on it when I sold it and the turbo was as fresh and strong as the day it was new. If the bearings are wearing, or the turbine blades are melting, you loose engine responsiveness very quickly, as well as eventually generating blue smoke. I did replace a turbo, a few years back, on a 1980 924 turbo Porsche. However, Porsche acknowledged that they had a bad design on the impeller shaft seal, which was subsequently fixed in the 1981 design. They placed a 1981 turbo in, and I had no further problems. Of course the care never saw 20000 miles in my care. However, the current owner has not had to replace the turbo, and he's got about 50000 accumulated miles on the motor. I have run a 924 GT Turbo Carrera (a limited production race car, in street form) for about 50000 miles. Now here is a car that was designed to push its components to the limits. The turbo is absolutlely trouble free for me. (I replaced a blown head gasket, and many other things, as a consequence of my racing, but the turbo is just dandy.) The car was built late in 1980. Proper operation and maintenance is the key. Operation: Two points here. First let the *oil* warm up before you mash the gas. If the oil ain't warm, it won't flow, and the turbo impeller won't be lubricated right. Second, When the engine has been running at high revs, don't shut the motor off without allowing it to cool down some. If you shut it off after running it at 5OOO RPM for a couple of minutes, the turbo keeps spinning. But with the motor stopped, the oil pump stops and no oil gets to the impeller shaft. It burns up! This is *very* important. Maintenance: Simple. Lots of oil changes. 600F heat in the turbo, wears oil down pretty quick. SAAB says 5000 between oil changes, as opposed to 7500 for non-turbo cars. I double this and do it every 2500 miles. It's cheap! With regards to the Volvo dealer comments. When I bought my last SAAB, a 1985 Turbo, the dealer spent a lot of time providing "new owner orientation" for me. (More than I've ever received for any car I've ever purchased.) He spent a lot of time talking about the warm up/cool down considerations. When I asked why, he said, "we've had to replace a number of turbos that were blown due to owner misuse.(They determine this by finding melted turbine blades when they brake them down.) Saab has been good about this in the past, but we are not obligated to replace turbos under warranty if owner misuse was the cause of the premature failure." I'm sure Volvo has seen a lot also, and their 40000 mile scare is probably designed to lower people's expectations, so that when it goes at 60k or 50k or 40k, for whatever reason, they don't have a bird (and will pay their service bill!) Turbos provide a way to get extra power economically. But they must be treated somewhat differently than a Chevy V8, which will normally run forever, if you add a quart of Cheapo oil every time the oil light comes on! Whew... -- Jack Saltiel Cambridge Digital Systems {wjh12,talcott}!cdstar!saltiel "Nailed retreads to my feet and prayed for better weather."