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From: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: American Hostages
Message-ID: <309@ubvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 23-Aug-85 16:14:18 EDT
Article-I.D.: ubvax.309
Posted: Fri Aug 23 16:14:18 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 28-Aug-85 20:43:08 EDT
References: <1042@ihlpg.UUCP> <185@pyuxii.UUCP> <11045@rochester.UUCP>
Reply-To: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch)
Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, Ca.
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Xref: watmath net.politics:10679 net.flame:11696

In article <361@rti-sel.UUCP> wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) writes:
>In article <726@mcnc.mcnc.UUCP> omo@mcnc.UUCP (Julie Omohundro) writes:
>
>>On Americans in war zones deserving what they get:
>>
>>I can sort of see your point, but I find this attitude bothersome,
>>because it seems to echo statments I heard in the 50s and 60s
>>about how blacks who got beaten up for trying to enter all-white
>>establishments or segregated schools were getting their just deserts.
>>Also statements then and now about women wearing provocative clothing
>>or walking alone at night deserving to get raped.
>
>I think the similarity you're commenting on is superficial.
>
>(Description of CWP "Death to the Klan" rally follows here; charge
>is that CWP were willing victims because they should have anticipated
>a violent Klan response.)
>
>The case of the Christians visiting Nicaragua seems similar to me (and
>I'm sure to many other people) because these people were knowingly
>placing themselves in a situation where something Bad would probably
>happen. Recall, for example, that Eden Pastora threatened them with
>bodily harm. If we assume these people were rational about their
>actions we have to assume they knew they were probably in for a
>violent confrontation and possibly martyrdom.
>
>Righteous indignation seems an appropriate response to me only when
>the victim is an unwilling victim. I find it hard to get worked up
>about 'martyrs' who are deliberately staging a media event.
>
>                             -- Bill Ingogly

I see some difference between the "Death to the Klan" rally and the
Christians visiting Nicaragua, since the CWP wanted violence and the
Christians didn't.  But the Christians ARE just like the blacks going
into an all-white diner or a woman walking on a street at night.  They
are there to show the contradiction between "justice, law, and morality"
and vigilante, bloody murderers (or rapists, as the case may be).

In a state of law and respect for decency and civilians, anyone not
threatening violence should be able to go about their affairs without
inciting violence against them.  The only way to demonstrate that a
state of law and respect does not exist is to initiate nonviolent
actions which generate violent responses.  If Bill thinks we all know
the contras are bloody murderers, then why doesn't the Congress know
this and cut the funds to the butchers?  Why should the Christians
believe Bill?

When there's a conspiracy of silence going on, often the more irrational
acts break through and do great good.

Tony Wuersch
{amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonyw