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From: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: American Hostages
Message-ID: <389@rti-sel.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 31-Aug-85 16:44:48 EDT
Article-I.D.: rti-sel.389
Posted: Sat Aug 31 16:44:48 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 2-Sep-85 03:54:30 EDT
References: <1042@ihlpg.UUCP> <185@pyuxii.UUCP> <11045@rochester.UUCP>
Reply-To: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC
Lines: 92
Xref: watmath net.politics:10773 net.flame:11779
Summary: 

In article <1755@psuvax1.UUCP> berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman) writes:

>However, Greensboro was an eye opener for me.  I started to read 
>newspapers more carefully.  Here is what I noticed:
>
>1.  To a surprizing degree it is better to be black than white.
>    As a small example, the routine practice of removing all
>    blacks from juries is still valid.

You're right, but I don't believe it's correct that all blacks are 
routinely removed from juries. As for it being better to be black than
white, I'll wager many middle-class whites out there in the audience
would stop for a white man in a Cadillac who has car trouble but pass
by a black man in a Cadillac who has car trouble. You can't legislate 
racist attitudes out of existence.

Statistics I've seen (no, I don't have a source) seemed to indicate
that a black arrested for a crime is more likely to be convicted and
serve a substantial sentence than a white arrested for the same crime.
Is this due to racism? I don't know. I think it's just as likely to
have economic roots: more whites in this situation may be able to
afford something other than a court-appointed lawyer. (oh, oh, here
come the indignant flames from the ex-law students! :-)
 
>2.  To sadly insurprizing degree it is better to be rich than poor.
>    This trend did not improve under Reagan.

And it's not likely to improve in the near future. I'd like to see
some of these right-wing nitwits actually have to LIVE as poor people
in 1985. But then these are the people who declared that ketchup can
be considered a vegetable in school lunches. It's rule by dubious
anecdote, folks; Ronnie tells his gullible audience that he's heard of
a young man [read: young black, ghetto blaster, $500 suit, Cadillac,
etc. etc. ] who uses his food stamps to buy orange juice to mix with
his vodka. Bingo: the Great Communicator strikes again. Tell the
average middle-class white who thinks minorities have gone Far Enough
a story like this and s/he'll follow you anywhere; it's just the thing
to subtley feed the flames of latent racism.

Oh, yes, and have you heard: anyone who disagrees with them is either
a secular humanist or a Communist. :-)

>3.  Is better to be in North than is South.  I have in mind some
>    behaviors of policemen and judges.

You obviously haven't read much about past activities of Mayor Rizzo's 
boys in blue in Philadelphia or Mayor Daley's best in Chicago. I think
police departments may have cleaned up their acts to some extent in
the past 15-20 years due to media exposure, but there are still abuses
in the North as well as the South. 
 
>...  It would be worthwile
>to discuss what we see as the real problems and what should be done
>to "continue the positive changes over the long haul".

The political climate in this country has changed in the past and it
will change again primarily (I think) in response to economic factors.
The conservatives have the '70s and the '80s, and laughingly dismiss
the 'bankrupt' philosophies of liberalism and consign us (as a posting
recently said) to the 'ashheap of history' (Yow! Where have we heard
that before? Am I having fun yet!?). 

Classical liberalism and conservatism don't seem to work anymore. I
see neoconservatism as heartless, and neoliberalism as an
opportunistic attempt to take advantage of the (apparent) conservative
tide that's sweeping the country. I've heard people talk about the
failure of liberalism or the failure of conservatism in the past, and
I'm sure I'll hear this sort of talk until the day I die. I know it's
hard to Keep the Faith when conservatives yahoos all around you are
busy glad-handing each other and congratulating themselves on
finishing off the left, but anyone with a sense of history knows that
the wheel will turn around again.

What should be done? Open your mouths and get involved in Democratic
party politics to change the party and make it more responsive to the
realities of life in the '80s. If you can't stomach the Democratic
party, work outside the party to educate the people and make your
voices heard. The neoconservatives and fundamentalist Christians may
ultimately see their right-wing agenda for America bear fruit, but we
can sure as hell temper the results by our actions in the voting booth
and on the streets and by financially supporting lobbyists for the
causes we believe in. Don't let these creeps have America without a 
fight!
 
I'm more conservative in many respects than I was at the age 
of 20, so I'm selective about the liberal 'goals' I support. I suppose
I consider myself a political independent like so many people in this
country. But I'm a little sick and tired of hearing the word 'liberal'
pronounced with a knowing sneer. You smug and self-satisfied 
right-wingers out there are in for a BIG surprise one of these days.

                             -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly