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From: marco@andromeda.UUCP (Louis Marco)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: ATTIS's force reduction:  A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <34@andromeda.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 7-Sep-85 10:56:44 EDT
Article-I.D.: andromed.34
Posted: Sat Sep  7 10:56:44 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 9-Sep-85 03:17:14 EDT
References: <913@mtuxo.UUCP> <730@homxb.UUCP>, <30@andromeda.UUCP> <777@homxb.UUCP>
Organization: Rutgers University, Newark, N.J.
Lines: 60

> In article <777@homxb.UUCP>, afa@homxb.UUCP (A.ACKERMAN) writes:
> The following does not represent the views of A. ACKERMAN or AT&T Bell
> Labs, but of R. McIlree
> **********************************************************************
> 
> The primary reason I vehmently diagreed with the original poster of
> the "force reduction" solution is that it is ludicrous to single out
> a group of people for termination because of race, color, creed, et..
> including HABITS.
> 
> 
     It is wrong to discriminate on the grounds of race, color, or creed.
       These things do not affect the people around you, and as such are
      no one's business but your own.  Your habits, however, *do* affect
    those around you. If my habits included buggering small children,
   would you argue that I should not be discriminated against on these
   grounds?
>
> In response to Louis Marco's opinion that smokers are about equal to those
> with offensive B.O., I offer the following:
> 
> 	Here at Bell Labs, we have segregated offices with respect to
> smoking. Smokers share offices with smokers, and non-sokers with
> non-smokers. I have not had any problems with people entering my office
> (and staying around, by the way) because of this. It's probably due
> to my enhanced productivity...
>
      Of course, if your smoke bothers me that much, I have the option
      to leave. In the original posting, I belive that the point was
         that non-smokers are forced to assume the
    costs of the additional health care costs incurred by smokers, and
    that the company is forced to assume the extra costs of things like
    changing air filters, emptying ashtrays, repairing holes burnt in
    carpets and uphlostery, etc. 
> 
> 	It's about time that university-types like you get off of your
> high ivory towers, wake up and smell the coffee, and find out what
> the real world (i.e. Industry) is like, because it sure is a hell of
> a lot different buddy.
> 
        Why is "industry" any more the real world than academia?
  Is it because you make more money ? Is it becuase whatever work you
  do is for the express purpose of making money for the stockholders
  of AT&T, while the aim of the inhabitants of the Ivory Towers is
  to advance general knowledge and thus improve the human condition?
  Is it because I don't have to wear a suit and tie, and I can come to
  work more or less when I want to come to work, instead of the standard
  9 to 5 ?
       In my opinion, industry and academia both have their place in the
"real world". My part of the world would be less comfortable without the
contributions of the commercial sector, and as for you:
   Where you hired right out of eigth grade, or did you make use of the
existence of an ivory tower to expand your skills and knowledge ?
   What shell are you running ?  It wouldn't be UCB, would it ?
  AT&T probably runs att shell, but I'm sure University of California
at Berkely shell is used *somewhere* out there in the "real world" !
(By the way, where have I heard all this before?....)

                                                    Louis Marco
                                                 CCIS,Rutgers,Newark