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From: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Newsgroups: net.kids,net.legal,net.politics
Subject: Re: corporal punishment in schools
Message-ID: <14@unc.unc.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 31-Aug-85 19:06:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: unc.14
Posted: Sat Aug 31 19:06:06 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 2-Sep-85 03:55:09 EDT
References: <2149T3B@psuvm> <658@rduxb.UUCP> <1214@teddy.UUCP>
Reply-To: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Organization: CS Dept, U. of N. Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 26
Xref: watmath net.kids:1841 net.legal:2240 net.politics:10774
Summary: 

In article <1214@teddy.UUCP> lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) writes:
>	Discipline based on fear is worse than no discipline at all.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?  School children have been
disciplined with fear for generations.  It didn't do much for their
creativity, but they did learn the basic skills.  With no discipline,
students learn nothing at all.

Would you also apply your assertion to the criminal justice system?
Is it better to allow unrestricted crime, rather than threaten potential
criminals with retaliation (prison)?

>	My mother teaches second grade in one of the nastier areas of the
>	Bronx, in New York City.  She maintains order by letting the
>	students know, in no uncertain terms, that she will be fair with
>	them, but NOT TAKE ANY CRAP.  She has their respect, and
>	never resorts to corporal punishment (which is illegal).

What would she do with a student who INSISTED on "giving her crap",
so as to make a reputation with the other kids by being more powerful
than the teacher?  Bluffing may work with second graders, but it won't
work with older students.  Furthermore, once the students realize
the teacher's stern demeanor is only a bluff, it won't work anymore
with anybody.

	Frank Silbermann