Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 11/03/84 (WLS Mods); site astrovax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!astrovax!elt From: elt@astrovax.UUCP (Ed Turner) Newsgroups: net.kids Subject: Re: Corporal Punishment (Discipline really) Message-ID: <647@astrovax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 9-Sep-85 15:01:36 EDT Article-I.D.: astrovax.647 Posted: Mon Sep 9 15:01:36 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 10-Sep-85 05:23:56 EDT Distribution: net Organization: Princeton Univ. Astrophysics Lines: 76 This discussion has turned into a debate about techniques for disciplinig children. In my opinion spankings are not necessarily more effective nor more psychologically or emotionally damaging to children than other forms of punishment. Here I would distinguish between disciplinary spanking and sadistic physical child abuse which actually inflicts injury on the child. Non-physical punishments can also be extremely cruel and humiliating and even abusive. There is a whole lot more to disciplining children effectively than picking the right form of punishment or reward. Reposted below is something I posted about a year ago in a previous discussion of discipline which was as well received as anything I have ever submitted. Thus, I hope it bears repetition. ______________________________________________________________________________ Discipline is a toughie. Here are a few things my wife and I have noticed in the course of raising our own and watching our friends raise theirs. 1) You should ALMOST NEVER (i.e., once a year at most) back down on something you have said, whether it is telling a child not to do something or threatening a specific punishment. The reason is obvious; how is the child to know in the future whether you mean it or whether you don't. Some people get into an awful trap this way. They place some act or behavior off limits, but their child persists, and eventually they relent and allow it. Next time they hold their ground longer, but the child still wins out in the end. The next time it takes even longer and so on. Unconsciously, the parents are teaching the child that he/she need only draw out the issue long enough to have a chance of getting their way. Soon even the smallest issues of discipline take hours or even days to resolve. Conversely, if you always mean what you say, the child soon learns to take your word for it. 2) Try not to nag your child and constantly be correcting its behavior on relatively minor points. Forbid behavior that is dangerous or really unacceptable but try not to be authoritarian about things that are merely annoying. The main reason for this beyond not overly suppressing the child's self expression is that children easily learn to "tune out" too frequent nagging. Then they almost literally don't hear you when the issue is more important. 3) Some children (or maybe all children at some age) respond positively to what their parents consider negative reinforcement. They so love to be the center of attention that they prefer being punished to being ignored. This can be a particular problem if the child is not getting enough other attention from the parents; even spankings can be preferable to what is in their eyes neglect. In this case ignoring bad behavior and responding strongly with attention to good behavior can sometimes work wonders. 4) Try to have rules that the child can understand and punishments that are applied consistently and uniformly. If the child cannot predict what behavior will displease you and how it will be punished, he/she is likely to see it as merely capriscious harrasment on your part. Problems of this sort can easily occur for small children who, for instance, cannot easily see why acceptable behavior at home is unacceptable in a restaurant or at grandparents' house. 5) Spanking (assuming it is not brutal) is not particularly more effective or more extreme than other punishments except perhaps for very small children who may not understand what other forms of punishment are all about. Parents who spank regularly may still fall into all of the traps described above (and no doubt others) and have as bad a discipline problems as parents who don't spank. Just switching from a no spanking to a spanking policy will not usually solve your problems. 6) Love your children and let them know they are loved as much as you can. This will cause them to *want* to please you. This is the easiest and in the long run the most effective "discipline". 7) Remember none of this or indeed anything works all the time or for all children. ______________________________________________________________________________ Incidentally, my wife and I have only resorted to a mild spanking two or three times in my 7 year old son's life. Ed Turner astrovax!elt