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From: lkk@teddy.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.kids,net.legal,net.politics
Subject: Re: corporal punishment in schools
Message-ID: <1247@teddy.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 3-Sep-85 17:02:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: teddy.1247
Posted: Tue Sep  3 17:02:40 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 5-Sep-85 02:31:22 EDT
References: <2149T3B@psuvm> <658@rduxb.UUCP> <1214@teddy.UUCP> <14@unc.unc.UUCP> <11316@rochester.UUCP>
Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.
Lines: 62
Xref: watmath net.kids:1861 net.legal:2258 net.politics:10800
Summary: 

In article <11316@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes:
>> In article <1214@teddy.UUCP> lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) writes:
>>	Discipline based on fear is worse than no discipline at all.
>> 
>I must pose to you a situation involving a parent child confrontation.
>Parent :    Time for bed.
>4yr old:    Nope.
>
>Parent :    Please, time for bed now.
>4yr old:    Nope.
>
>Parent :    You must go to bed now.
>4yr old:    Nope. 
>
>And so on, what would you do?  Remember, you said discipline based on fear is
>better than no disipline at all.  You're not allowed to threaten to take his
>teddy bear away.  You're not allowed to tell him he can't have ice cream if
>he doesn't listen.  Are not these tactics based on threatening the child with
>fear, i.e. no ice cream, take away your buddy the teddy bear.  I really want to
>know what you would do without some kind of threat.  By the way, you are not
>allowed to bodily carry him to bed, that would be physically taking matters in
>hand and over powering him with your size.  Besides, he would just climb out of
>bed and come downstairs.  What WOULD you do?


Clearly there ARE situations where taking matters into your own hands
is the only appropriate action.  For instance, a newborn baby must be treated
in such a way, since you can't communicate with it at all, really.

BUT, there  comes a time in a child's emotional development when she does 
become open to reason (i.e. starts to develop a superego).  At that point, there
are two paths you can choose in guiding the childs behavior.  You can simply
decide that you know what is best for the child, and she WILL obey, or else.
OR, you can decide that you have some ideas that you would like to convey to
the child, and you can attempt to develop in the child a deep understanding of
those ideas, so that eventually the child actually beleives in them herself.
BETTER YET, you can attempt develop in the child a strong sense of self so that
she might develop her own set of moral beliefs. 

TO RETURN TO YOUR IMMEDDIATE QUESTION:  Well, clearly the answer is to hang the
child upside down while sticking pointy sticks under her skin, until she begs
to go to bed.. :-; Seriously, you have a number of options, depending on the
emotional maturity of the child.  You might try explaining why it is important
to go to bed at a reasonable hour.  You might try to understand exactly what is
motivating her to want to stay up late (such as the TV being on, or guests
being around), and remove that impetus (at least untill she falls asleep).  Or
you could, lovingly, carry her into bed, tell her a bedtime story, or what have
you.  Carrying her to bed does not HAVE to entail fear.


Its all a matter of intent.  If you use coercion as a last resort, and do it in
a way that will not leave emotional scars on the child, than I have no beef
with you.  But if you use violence and arbitrary terror to keep the child "in
line", you simply creating an emotionally crippled individual for the next
generation to deal with.

-- 

Sport Death,
Larry Kolodney
(USENET) ...decvax!genrad!teddy!lkk
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