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From: phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai)
Newsgroups: net.micro,net.arch,net.research
Subject: Re: Info wanted on In-circuit-emulators (ICE)
Message-ID: <3567@amdcad.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 7-Sep-85 01:47:09 EDT
Article-I.D.: amdcad.3567
Posted: Sat Sep  7 01:47:09 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Sep-85 04:19:59 EDT
References: <321@sesame.UUCP> <59@intelca.UUCP>
Reply-To: phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai)
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Organization: Just a nobody, Silicon Valley, CA
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Xref: watmath net.micro:11858 net.arch:1747 net.research:215

In article <59@intelca.UUCP> cem@intelca.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes:
>If you really want a good ICE unit get an I^2ICE from Intel.

Yes, get an I^2ICE from Intel if you want to spend many bucks ($40,000?
For a floppy based system, I think.) and learn a new text editor (what 
was the name of that brain damaged thing, credit or something) and a
whole new operating system (isis, more powerful than a speeding CP/M,
or is it the other way around?) Until recently, you had the delightful
choice of ASM86, PL/M86, or Pascal. There may be a C now. Maybe.

Even so, we thought we wanted one. Then the salesman told us "You're
the last customer we'd ship one to. You compete with us."
Nice way to do business. I don't think his attitude was condoned by
Intel management, but if you are in a business that competes remotely
with Intel it might be prudent to consider how vulnerable you want to be.

Rumor has it that Intel is coming to their senses and porting their ICE
to an IBM-PC host instead of forcing their own weirdness on the world.
If I^2ICE is for you, it may be worth waiting for the IBM-PC version.

My impression of the whole business is that yes it was very powerful
but most of the time overkill for what people really use and need.
Depends on what you're doing, of course.

I am told by another ICE maker that Intel has this trick of
hiding the information you need to make a good ICE for the 80286 
except on special "bond out" versions which they don't sell except
as part of their ICE. This "bond out" version of the 80286 has extra
pads to bring out chip state information necessary to run an ICE.
This seems like a dubious technique but Intel seems to be getting
away with it.

Just my opinion. I speak only for myself. I broke into this machine
before AMD implemented their security system and they don't know I 
wrote this. :-)
-- 
 The overseas Chinese are the Jews of Asia.

 Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720
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