Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!hamachi@ucbkim From: hamachi@ucbkim (Gordon Hamachi) Newsgroups: net.micro.mac Subject: C Compiler Survey & DeSmet Query Message-ID: <8508290754.AA29775@ucbkim.ARPA> Date: Thu, 29-Aug-85 03:54:39 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbkim.8508290754.AA29775 Posted: Thu Aug 29 03:54:39 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 31-Aug-85 03:31:48 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.ARPA Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 87 A quick survey of Macintosh C compiler prices in MacWorld Ads shows: Consulair C : $620 (425+195 for the Apple MDS) Manx C-c (commercial system): $499 (everything, list price) Consulair C : $449 (discount mail order, with MDS. fp?) Manx C-c (commercial system): $360 (discount mail order) Megamax C : $300 (list) Manx C-d (developer system) : $299 (without vi, make, diff, grep, updates) Hippo C (level 2) : $239 (discount mail order) Softworks C : $237 (discount mail order) Manx C-p (personal system) : $199 (non-commercial license) Megamax C : $180 (discount mail order) DeSmet C : $150 (list) Hippo C (level 1) : $ 89 (discount mail order) Here are my somewhat biased opinions, in no particular order: Softworks C: A slow and clumsy system. I saw it only at the Mac Expo. The compiler has some strange quirks, for example, you must have at least one global variable, and it must be initialized. Much of the clumsiness of the system is that a working system with even a small program won't fit on 2 disk drives. Don't buy it unless you have a big hard disk or two floppies plus a ram disk. Manx C: This is a very high quality system, especially for those who like the Unix shell, vi, ls, etc. I was prepared to dislike it since it is not Mac-like, but it is fine, especially if you already know about environment variables, paths, etc. Used it extensively. Only 1 minor bug detected in the compiler, but some of the documentation had errors. Tons of documentation in an IBM PC-style binder. Possibly too much documentation. I found it hard to find what I wanted. Copy protected, but you only have to insert the master disk once when you boot the system (hey, no problem, it never bothered me). The system is fast and produces fast, compact code. Hippo C: Only saw it at the Mac Expo. Slow. Unsuitable for developement. I'm annoyed at Hippo C because they promised me an evaluation copy, didn't send one, and never replied to my mail. Megamax C: Used it extensively. They didn't send me an evaluation copy, but they never promised to, and I can respect that. I used a friend's copy instead. Good quality compiler. Fast and easy to use, but had an annoying number of bugs. Many of them were fixed in release v2.0, more in the latest release, v2.1. Includes a batch facility as well as a Mac-like environment with menus, dialog boxes, etc. The people at Megamax were quite courteous and helpful. Good documentation, including hard copy of header files and system library definitions. Manual includes a decent index! Consulair C: Saw it only at the Mac Expo. Seems okay. Rumored to be relatively bug-free. Certainly the most expensive C compiler around, since you have to buy the MDS developement system assembler from Apple to use the compiler, an additional $195 list! They annoyed me by first promising me an evaluation copy, but then refusing to send one, citing that it is NOT copy protected (the implication being that I might rip them off). Instead, they told me that they offer a full money back guarantee if care to buy one and am dissatisfied. DeSmet C: Have never seen it. Would somebody who has the DeSmet C compiler for the Macintosh please report on it? Does it support the Unix version 7 extensions? Is it bug-free? I understand it is a port of the DeSmet C compiler for the IBM PC. The documentation for the PC version is completely underwhelming. On the other hand, what I saw contained far fewer than the 360 pages that DeSmet's advertisement claims for the Macintosh version, so maybe the Mac version is better. Incidentally, Byte magazine's August 1983 comparison of C compilers had this to say about the DeSmet compiler for the PC: "usually fastest in compilation and linkage times, regularly produced tight code and small incremental program size, and always ranked at the top in terms of execution speed." My current thinking is to buy the one with the best debugger. Rumors say that DeSmet and Megamax may soon come out with symbolic debuggers.