Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site gargoyle.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes
From: carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes)
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: Re: What is net.women for, anyway?
Message-ID: <169@gargoyle.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 26-Aug-85 14:42:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: gargoyle.169
Posted: Mon Aug 26 14:42:10 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 27-Aug-85 06:43:15 EDT
Reply-To: carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes)
Organization: U. of Chicago, Computer Science Dept.
Lines: 70
Summary: The purpose of net.women should be clarified by The Powers That Be

Nancy Parsons writes:

> So, the question, it seems to me, is "What is the common interest for which
> net.women exists?"  Is it supposed to be a forum for saying anything one
> wishes about women?  For slinging mud at those with whom we disagree?  For
> women to share experiences and encouragement?  Many of us think it should
> be the latter, with, perhaps an opportunity for others to "listen in" to
> what women are thinking, feeling, and doing.

The description of net.women in the list of newsgroups posted in
net.announce.newusers reads in its entirety, "Women's rights,
discrimination, etc."  This isn't a terribly clear description of the
purpose of net.women.  I think it should be clarified whether
this newsgroup is intended to be:

A.  A support group for women, to which (primarily or exclusively)
    women post articles to share experiences and encouragement,
    and for others to listen in to educate themselves about what 
    women are thinking, feeling, etc.;  or

B.  A forum for discussion of topics related to the feminist movement,
    the position of women in society, the oppression of women in history,
    sexism and patriarchy and their effects on the lives of women,
    the differences between men and women and to what extent the
    differences are to be attributed to biology or culture, and so
    forth.

I am all in favor of having both kinds of newsgroup on the net, but I
don't think a SINGLE newsgroup can reasonably be expected to serve
BOTH purposes very well.  Similarly, if a "net.blacks" is created, it
must be clear from the outset whether it is supposed to be a support
group for blacks or a forum for discussion of racism, etc.  If
net.women is supposed to fulfill purpose B, it is to be expected that
articles will often be posted by males expressing anti-feminist
views, and they have a right to do so as long as they are courteous,
just as anyone has a right to express anti-Semitic views in
net.politics, however odious one may consider those beliefs.  Also,
loudmouths will by definition post more frequently than the
thoughtful quiet types.

> This is not women asking for special privileges.  It is a group of people
> (male and female) who share a particular interest asking that the group not
> be dominated by people who are not contributing to that interest.

OK -- my point is that this interest should be well-defined:  the
purpose of net.women should be made clear to all readers of Usenet.
If that interest is defined as "feminism, women's position in
society, and related topics," I think that the anti-feminists are
just as interested in this subject as are feminists.

> It is a group of people frustrated because it really does appear that we
> are being discriminated against on the net...we are not accorded the
> same courtesy that other "minorities" (subscribers to net.politics,
> net.religion, etc.) are given.

Net.politics and net.religion were never, as far as I know, intended
to serve as mutual-support groups for adherents of a particular
political philosophy or religious belief; they were intended to be
discussion groups for anyone with an interest in politics or
religion.  So I don't see an analogy here.

I am a male who is interested in learning more about feminist theory
and politics and how this relates to my own life, and particularly in
feminism from a left perspective (Engels, Juliet Mitchell, etc.).  I
would regret having to confine such discussion to net.politics with
its low signal-to-noise ratio.  Be that as it may, expecting
net.women to fulfill both purposes A and B above can only lead to
frustration.

Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes