Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site mmintl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
From: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: External Influences
Message-ID: <636@mmintl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 5-Sep-85 20:41:59 EDT
Article-I.D.: mmintl.636
Posted: Thu Sep  5 20:41:59 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Sep-85 11:23:53 EDT
References: <3518@decwrl.UUCP> <1451@pyuxd.UUCP> <661@psivax.UUCP> <1555@pyuxd.UUCP> <675@psivax.UUCP> <1607@pyuxd.UUCP> <492@spar.UUCP>
Reply-To: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Organization: Multimate International, E. Hartford, CT
Lines: 35
Summary: 


In article <492@spar.UUCP> ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) writes:
>
>    But the past DOES NOT EXIST any more. The past has turned into the
>    present moment. 
>
>    You have not recognized that a phenomenon can be described in two
>    different ways:
>
>    (1) Instantaneously, as a time slice -- in which case, all past
>	experiences have been incorporated into the present moment, via
>	memories, structure, momentum, impinging causes etc. External in
>	this case can only mean that which is physically outside of the
>	entity in question, but entirely within the current timeslice
>	(assuming materialistic metaphysics).
>
>    (2) As a Godlike viewer, examining all events transpiring within
>        an interval of time, in which case, external means outside
>	of the entity's `world tube'.	
>
>    Neither method of description is incorrect -- in principle, given
>    a suitable instantaneous definition of a phenomenon, one ought to
>    be able to examine the structure of its worldtube. 
>    
>    Now Mr. Friesen is speaking in instantaneous terms; therefore, Rich,
>    your comments about past experiences are irrelevant, unless you 
>    restate them in present-moment terms (eg - memories, habits, momentum,
>    impinging causes..).

Yes, one can get a consistent definition of free will in this way.  But you
don't want it.  It obliges to grant that my computer, which is a running a
program I entered and commanded it to run some time ago, is exhibiting free
will.

... on the other hand, if you are going to allow memories of past events to
count as external factors, you have given away the whole argument.