Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!mcgeer From: mcgeer@ucbvax.ARPA (Rick McGeer) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: America-bashing (really emigration from Cuba) Message-ID: <10348@ucbvax.ARPA> Date: Tue, 10-Sep-85 21:17:23 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.10348 Posted: Tue Sep 10 21:17:23 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 11-Sep-85 20:04:36 EDT References: <1548@bbncca.ARPA> <315@ubvax.UUCP> <1206@ihlpg.UUCP> Reply-To: mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 57 In article <1206@ihlpg.UUCP> tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) writes: >> [Tony Wuersch] >> A born-again counterrevolutionary has spoken again. When did most >> of these people leave Cuba? Did they have any problems leaving? >> >> I'll bet they left at the beginning of the Cuban Revolution, just >> as Tories (lots) left the USA and French (all) left Algeria. If they >> left then, they also had little problem leaving (aside from problems >> associated with the mood of panic at the time -- you can't expect a >> new regime to be an efficient emigration-cum-travel agency too --). >> >> If a significant minority of Cubans (remember, the number is 10%) >> decide they can't afford to wait and see if a revolution helps them >> or hurts them (and why should they wait if they were part of the groups >> the revolution was made against?), they leave. And the Cuban >> government didn't restrain them from exercising their choice. >> >> After the first big emigration, how much is left, Ron? I don't know, >> but I don't think much. 10% for a small country is not a whole lot. >> What's so unique about that? >------ >An apologist for totalitarianism has spoken again. > First, Tony's analogies are ridiculous. The Tories left after the >American revolution because they considered themselves to be British >subjects, and wished to remain so. Likewise, the French living in >Algeria were Frenchmen, and did not wish to remain in Algeria when >it was no longer part of their country. The people leaving Cuba were >CUBANS, leaving what undeniably was their own country. If I lived >in Puerto Rico, and it became independent, I might choose to leave >because I am an American, not a Puerto Rican, regardless of the nature >of the new government. Agreed, twice. By the way, one of the reasons that many Cubans left after Castro took over is that Castro became the first Cuban ruler to perform overtly political executions. Batista didn't execute his opponents, or even give them long prison terms -- for his first revolution, Castro got about three years. Castro executed everybody, even opposition Senators. > Secondly, 10% in a period of a few years sounds like a lot to me. >It's a lot more than left, say, Chile when the brutal Pinochet took >power, or than left Argentina during the worst of the killings there, >or than left Brazil during all its years of military rule. It's an awful lot. The population of the Revolutionary United States was about 1.3 million. If 10% left because they were Tories, then the population o of Lower Canada and Nova Scotia would have swelled by 130,000, or more than doubled. In fact, there were less than 10,000 "United Empire Loyalists" as the Tories were known in Canada. I might also point out that George Washington took pains to ensure that the lives and property of Tories that remained in the United States were protected and respected. Indeed, there was no case of a political execution or even a jailing in the post-Revolutionary period. Castro...see above. Rick.