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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!panda!teddy!lkk
From: lkk@teddy.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.kids,net.legal,net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: corporal punishment in schools
Message-ID: <1296@teddy.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 11-Sep-85 12:56:30 EDT
Article-I.D.: teddy.1296
Posted: Wed Sep 11 12:56:30 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 12-Sep-85 23:37:21 EDT
References: <2149T3B@psuvm> <658@rduxb.UUCP> <1214@teddy.UUCP> <261@steinmetz.UUCP>
Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.
Lines: 54
Xref: linus net.kids:1836 net.legal:1952 net.politics:10193
Summary: 

In article <261@steinmetz.UUCP> cooper@steinmetz.UUCP (Clark Cooper) writes:
>In article <1214@teddy.UUCP> from lkk@teddy.UUCP (L.K.Kolodney) writes:
>> My mother teaches second grade in one of the nastier areas of the
>> Bronx, in New York City.  She maintains order by letting the
>> students know, in no uncertain terms, that she will be fair with
>> them, but NOT TAKE ANY CRAP.  She has their respect, and
>> never resorts to corporal punishment (which is illegal).
>
>You left out the punch line - what exactly does she do if someone
>tests the policy. In other words, "I WON'T TAKE ANY CRAP or else ...";
>I'm asking, "or else what?".


I don't know the exact methods she uses "or else", but they are not
violent.  THings like making the student stay after class, or what have
you, sound about right.  More importantly, however, is that students who behave
well are rewarded (ideally with the natural rewards of such behavior, thus
teaching why such behavior is good.)

The point I was trying to make, though, was that she rarely has to resort
to even these methods.  Her students actually repect her.  This is not based
on fear (although initially it might be).  It is based on the same sort of 
feeling that one might have for a great hero.  You see someone of true quality,
and you come to respect them.  I think this is frequently a subconcious sort
of thing.  The kids just get an intuitve feeling that "here is someone
who is 'serious'".

I guess that there are two separate issues here.  How to discipline in the
abstract, and how to implement implement discipline.

Corporal punishment is a practical implementation of the need to use
some coercive force.  But it is an extreme method.  Extreme methods are only
needed when the situation gets extremely out of control.

My claim is that by using certain paradigm for discipline, which emphasizes
positive feedback, and understanding, such extremes need never be reached.

To summarize:  Corporal punishment is bad because (1) it can
		be physically dangerous, and (2) it causes uneccesary
		trauma for the child.

		Negative, reactive discipline is bad, because it serves
		to create an ethical system based on avoidance of punishment,
		rather than of reference to values.
		
		When a positive reinforcing discipline is used, corporal
		punishment does not have to be resorted to.

-- 

Sport Death,
Larry Kolodney
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