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From: berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Newsflash! [Subsidized Education]
Message-ID: <1756@psuvax1.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 29-Aug-85 17:43:02 EDT
Article-I.D.: psuvax1.1756
Posted: Thu Aug 29 17:43:02 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 31-Aug-85 17:58:31 EDT
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Organization: Pennsylvania State Univ.
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>  JoSH
> >>>...  I'd rather believe in people than believe in libertaria anytime.
> >>>Tony Wuersch
> >>
> >>You don't believe in people.  You believe in the dehumanizing State.
> >> ...
> >>--JoSH
> >
> (mmt:)
> >...  The USA, generally
> >speaking, is probably the country that most strongly advocates freedom
> >of economic choice.
> 
> Try Switzerland, or Hong Kong, or Singapore, or Taiwan, or Japan.
> 
> >  It also seems to be the country that breeds people
> >who fanatically distrust state activities.  ...
> >People [in Europe], do NOT seem to want to move to a more libertarian 
> >condition.
> 
> I know quite a few Europeans who came here to live permanently, on their
> own.  The only Americans I know who went to live in Europe had married
> someone who already lived there; there were few of them, and NO ONE
> went to Eastern Europe.  But I number several ex-Eastern Europeans 
> among my friends, and most of them have an opinion of (Eastern European)
> governments that you apparently just don't want to believe.
> ............................................................
> Perhaps the barbed-wire fences, the machine-gun-toting police, the
> ubiquitous monitoring and censorship of all means of communication,
> the necessity of saying the "right thing", outweigh the hopeless
> yearning for a little freedom, a little human dignity.
> 
  JoSH, before replying, READ.  Martin referred to Western Europe, obviously.
Over there state has much larger role in the economy than in US.  States
run health service, railroads, most of utilities and MUCH MORE.
Although there some trends for returning certain industries back to
privite sector, no political party proposes to reduce the government
involvement in the economy to US level.
  Of course, there are libertarians in Europe.  For example, I attended
a privite libertarian seminar back in Poland (among "barbed-wire fences").
But those are few.  There was one quite powerful movement in Danmark, but
now it is fading.
  As far as migrations are concerned, there are Americans working in West 
Europe and West Europeans working here.  Most of them eventually return to
their home countries.
  JoSH loves to equate non-libertarians with communists.  He claims that
liberals believe in slavery.  But since Canada of France do not look
sufficiently "dehumanized", he jumps at once to Eastern Europe.  
  
  Piotr Berman