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From: josh@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (J Storrs Hall)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Newsflash! [Subsidized Education]
Message-ID: <3517@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3-Sep-85 23:13:36 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.3517
Posted: Tue Sep  3 23:13:36 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 4-Sep-85 23:25:17 EDT
References: <955@umcp-cs.UUCP> <1110@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: josh@topaz.UUCP (J Storrs Hall)
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Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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In article <1756@psuvax1.UUCP> berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman) writes:
> ...  Martin referred to Western Europe, obviously.
>Over there state has much larger role in the economy than in US. 
>...
>  JoSH loves to equate non-libertarians with communists.  He claims that
>liberals believe in slavery.  But since Canada of France do not look
>sufficiently "dehumanized", he jumps at once to Eastern Europe.  
>  Piotr Berman

I believe that the extent of government intervention in the economy
of the western european democracies, including the "socialist" ones
such as Sweden and France, are quite comparable to the US levels,
consisting of direct control of about 40% of the economy and a
complex and pervasive web of regulations over the rest.  I have plenty
of bones to pick with these "mixed economy" democracies, but the
socialist ideals have considerably modified by realpolitik in practice
(here and in Western Europe).  To judge the socialist ideals themselves
we must look to places where they have been put into practice without
distorting them over such minutiae as human rights.  Thus we must look
further east.

I repeat:  The western democracies, American and European, represent
ideological arenas where the actual policies are an amalgam of free-
market and socialist ideals.  Socialists may not legitimately claim
any credit for the ameliorative effect of the resistance to their
programs.  The Eastern European countries are valid demonstrations
of where those programs would lead without such resistance.

--JoSH