Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site cybvax0.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Newsgroups: net.origins,net.religion,net.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Bible -- a reliable source of information about God Message-ID: <719@cybvax0.UUCP> Date: Sun, 1-Sep-85 16:48:53 EDT Article-I.D.: cybvax0.719 Posted: Sun Sep 1 16:48:53 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 2-Sep-85 09:38:19 EDT References: <8508172148.AA02946@sdcc6.ARPA> <308@pyuxn.UUCP> <2195@sdcc6.UUCP> <396@scgvaxd.UUCP> Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA Lines: 80 Xref: linus net.origins:2276 net.religion:7110 net.religion.christian:1170 Summary: In article <396@scgvaxd.UUCP> dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) writes: > What I am really interested in is what happened to you to bring you > to this conclusion. It would appear that at one time you probably > considered yourself a Christian, but was hurt by something or someone. > More likely you were hurt several times. > > I know that you can not possibly really believe your theory without > being some sort of monster. To believe that an evil God is in control > of the universe, you would no doubt be an evil madman yourself. > > More likely you have been hurt and are trying to hurt back. You are > trying to hurt God for letting such things happen to you when, after > all, you were only trying to serve Him. Or, maybe someone very close > to you was hurt! Something has hurt you and has caused you to be bitter > towards God! And now it is your turn to do some hurting! What a pompous, insulting, and fallacious ad-hominem argument! (I'd compare it to something from 1984's Ministry of Love, except that coming from Dan it's [fortunately] laughable.) Let us consider an analogous situation to living in a maltheistic universe: living in Uganda under Idi Amin or Cambodia under Pol Pot. Obviously you wouldn't have to be personally hurt or be a monster to recognize the reality of their depravity. > Well, you have succeeded! You have surely hurt God by your description > of Him. You have also hurt the rest of God's people. In first Corinthians > chapter 12 it says how the body of Christ is like a human body. It has > many members and when one member suffers the whole body suffers. If you > are suffering, we are suffering with you. More Orwellian rhetoric. The next step is to "cure" him against his will of problems brought about by the maltheistic deity. Just as the Soviets "cure" dissadents in asylums.... > Please consider these words: > > We all suffer disapointments. We all suffer pain and loss in our lives. > We all question God's wisdom and love at times. I have been so angry > at God for "letting" certain things happen to me that I have questoned > Him. I have yelled and screamed at Him. I have shaken my fist at Him. > But when it was all over and I felt worse for my trouble, He was still > there waiting for me to calm down and seek His wisdom and comfort. You may yeall and scream at prison bars: when you stop they're still there. And you find that reassuring? > Have you suffered as much as God has, MR. Z? To leave His place in glory > and become human flesh only to be tortured, ridiculed, and killed by > His own children, can hardly be compared to the suffering most of us > have gone through. Yet there is another difference. We deserve it! He > didn't! What a twisted argument! What makes you think (assuming the idea that the bible is superficially true) that JC really hurt? He just as easily could have fooled us, with a fleshy automaton mistaken for a god, to load more guilt upon gullible fools who say things like "we deserve it!" > If you don't see Gods love being offered to you, I truly feel sorry for > you and will remember you in my prayers. It is there waiting for you. > Don't let your suffering and pain keep you from the only lasting cure > for it. An evil-damager-god would have zapped you and me out a long time > ago. A loving, gracious, and merciful God waits patiently for us to > look up! Your stubborn adherance to this mind-boggling inanity provides all the evidence I need to prefer the damager-god theory to yours. > I bought my wife a little plaque about a year ago! I couldn't resist it > because it said these words which immediately struck my heart: > > "I asked Jesus (God) how much He loved me; He said, 'This much!' Then He > streched out His hands and died!" Does this mean you want your wife to die? What sick and perverted symbolism. Next to Christianity, satanic rock and roll seems innocent. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh