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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: God and suffering
Message-ID: <1701@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 14-Sep-85 16:03:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1701
Posted: Sat Sep 14 16:03:04 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 15-Sep-85 00:30:13 EDT
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Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
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> I've been a Christian for some years now, and I haven't quit
> suffering yet.  [CHARLI PHILLIPS]

No comment.  (Well, one:  this makes it sound like Paul Zimmerman is right
about god, doesn't it?)

> Suffering is a fact of life in a fallen world.

What's interesting about this is that this is the diametric opposite of
Zimmerman's maltheism:  in his view, the world is a "good" place that
god mucks up.  In the Christian view put forth by Charli here, the world
is a "fallen" place, where suffering is to be expected, while God brings the
"good".  Is either viewpoint any more arbitrary than the other?  Is either
viewpoint reflected in reality?  Isn't the world just a place where a hell of
a lot of things happen, to entities each with their own self-interest, where
the natural course of events owing to physical laws results in things that
are "good", "neutral", or "bad" (causing suffering) only based on your personal
perspective (your growing different unique needs)?

> So try your rose-colored theology in the Soviet Union, Albania, Nepal,
> Iran, or some other place where Christians suffer *because* they are
> Christians.  It doesn't work.  Or try it here.  Christians and non-
> Christians alike have heart attacks and cancer.  We all are subject to
> injury.  We are not spared lay-offs.  We may have a parent or a child 
> die.  Read Ecclesiastes, or the Gospels.  You aren't promised a life
> free of suffering until you obtain the resurrection.  [to Phil Ward}

I think Phil Ward's assessment is quite accurate, in that Paul (not Zimmerman,
Paul as in Tarsus---god, I feel like this is the University of Woolamaloo
Religion Department, with everyone named Paul... :-)  ... ahem, as I was
saying, in that Paul adds needless additional suffering (and acceptance of
suffering) into people's lives.  Yes, there is suffering, not because of
some damager god, but because of the nature and complexity of the world.
But it is often within our power to do something about it and not just
accept it or add to feelings of suffering unnecessary.
-- 
"Meanwhile, I was still thinking..."
				Rich Rosen  ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr