Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version nyu B notes v1.5 12/10/84; site csd2.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!csd2!martillo From: martillo@csd2.UUCP (Joachim Martillo) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Julie Harazduk and the Trinity Message-ID: <3770002@csd2.UUCP> Date: Tue, 3-Sep-85 22:49:00 EDT Article-I.D.: csd2.3770002 Posted: Tue Sep 3 22:49:00 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 6-Sep-85 04:15:28 EDT References: <3770001@csd2.UUCP> Organization: New York University Lines: 61 /* csd2:net.religion.christian / rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) / 12:38 pm Aug 27, 1985 */ >> Normally, I do not reply to this type of article but Julie Harazduk >> has claimed to be Jewish. Generally, I consider the Jewishness of >> Ashkenazim suspect unless they are acting in a recognizably Jewish way >> by Sefardi standards. Most of what most Ashkenazim consider >> Jewishness is basically some barbaric customs picked up from German >> and Slavic peasants over the past couple of centuries. Also many of >> the ideas which Ashkenazim consider Jewish religious ideas in fact >> come from Christianity. [MARTILLO] >If I were to say to Martillo that the Jewishness of Sefardim is questionable >at best because what Sefardim consider Jewishness is basically some barbaric >set of customs picked up in a variety of countries over the last couple >of centuries, and that I would not refer to his actionsas "Jewish" unless >he was acting in a recognizably Jewish way by Ashkenazic standards, he would >probably call me a name like "vusvus". Unfortunately, I used Jewishness in two different senses in the above article. The first time I meant Jewish lineage. The second time I meant the inheritance of the assembly of Jacob. Anyway since Sefardim spread out over a much wider region than Ashkenazim have a much more uniform culture, borrowings from non-Jews in the area can basically be ruled out in almost all cases. As long as Haim Druckman and his ilk in Israel are behaving in such a rude, ignoble, base, and insulting way on the issue of Ethiopian Jews, I will continue to point out that there has been considerable question about the "purity" of Jewish lineage of Ashkenazim among Sefardi sages of the previous five centuries. There is much evidence of the absorption of Karaite, Orthodox, and pietist protestant populations into the Ashkenazi community in Eastern Europe as well as many legitimate suspicions of rampant mamzerut. As long as the Ashkenazi religious leadership is acting immature in a way which Sefardim outgrew a century ago, I will continue to point out the existence of such suspicions. In any case, Rosen got so upset a year ago when I said he was Jewish because his mother was Jewish, he should be glad that I have found legitimate reason to consider him a non-Jew. Clearly he knows nothing about Judaism. I suspect this ignorance was handed down from his parents. Since the Jewish lineage of Ashkenazim is so dubious, I will take this tradition of ignorance among the Rosen family as prima facie evidence of non-Jewish ancestry. Therefore, Rosen is probably by ancestry a Christian. (I apologize to Christians on the net for "giving" them Rosen but the logic is inescapable.) >This man does not represent even his own sect of Jewish belief. Basically, >he makes some radical fundamentalist Christians sound almost human by >comparison. What gave him the idea that his version of "Judaism" is the >correct one while all others are "suspect" is beyond me. He claims that >it is Ashkenazim whose ideas come from Christianity, but clearly his >self-centered intolerance and belief that his way represents what Judaism >"is" sounds like it came right out of the Spanish Inquisition, or the >Crusades. It makes me wonder if people like Paul Zimmerman are right when >I read people like Martillo. He lets me know that intolerance and bigotry >and hate are not isolated to one particular religion. Not by a long shot. Rosen is so tolerant while I make some radical fundamentalist Christians sound almost human. Well I know one group which used to identify some group of people as not human as Rosen has just done. These people are the NAZIS. Sieg Heil, Rosen!