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From: martillo@csd2.UUCP (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Julie Harazduk and the Trinity
Message-ID: <3780082@csd2.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 6-Sep-85 00:07:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: csd2.3780082
Posted: Fri Sep  6 00:07:00 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Sep-85 10:30:47 EDT
References: <3780072@csd2.UUCP>
Organization: New York University
Lines: 45

/* csd2:net.religion.jewish / rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) / 12:42 pm Aug 27, 1985 */

>> Normally, I do not reply  to  this type of  article but Julie Harazduk
>> has claimed to  be Jewish.   Generally,  I consider the Jewishness  of
>> Ashkenazim suspect unless they are acting in a recognizably Jewish way
>> by   Sefardi   standards.   Most of  what     most Ashkenazim consider
>> Jewishness  is basically some barbaric  customs picked  up from German
>> and Slavic peasants over the past  couple of centuries.   Also many of
>> the ideas which  Ashkenazim  consider Jewish  religious ideas in  fact
>> come from Christianity. [MARTILLO]

>If I were to say to Martillo that the Jewishness of Sefardim is questionable
>at best because what Sefardim consider Jewishness is basically some barbaric
>set of customs picked up in a variety of countries over the last couple
>of centuries, and that I would not refer to his actionsas "Jewish" unless
>he was acting in a recognizably Jewish way by Ashkenazic standards, he would
>probably call me a name like "vusvus".

In the original article I unfortunately used Jewishness in two senses:
Jewish lineage and the  inheritance of the  assembly  of Jacob (Jewish
faith and tradition).

As for the second usage, Sefardi Jewish customs  are fairly homogenous
over an   extremely wide geographic area  among   an extremely diverse
group  of  non-Jews.  Except  in a  few  specific cases borrowing from
non-Jews  is extremely  unlikely  origin for  Sefardic  Jewish custom;
therefore, when  Sefardi and Ashkenazi custom differ,   a Christian or
pagan origin for the Ashkenazi custom can usually be found.

As for lineage, strong evidence exists  that the Ashkenazi  population
in Europe absorbed  many  Karaites, Orthodox, and pietist protestants.
Therefore, Ashkenazi rabbis like Haim  Druckman should be  the last to
run around casting doubt on the lineage of Ethiopians  Jews (at  least
they don't look slavic like many Ashkenazim).  As long as Druckman and
his ilk   continue   this rude, crude  and  immature  behavior  (which
Sefardim outgrew over a century ago), I will continue to point out the
dubious Jewish lineage of  Ashkenazim.   Psychology, Druckman  et  al.
worry so much  about  Ethiopian Jewish lineage  in  order to  convince
themselves of the purity of their own dubious lineage.

Rosen should  be pleased.   He  was upset  when I said   he was Jewish
because his  mother was  Jewish.   Now I  can  logically  consider him
non-Jewish.  Rosen is such an  ignoramus that there  must have  been a
tradition of his ignorance.  Such  a tradition of  ignorance I take as
prima facie evidence of the Rosen family's non-Jewish origin.