Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 ggr 02/21/84; site cord.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!cord!rib From: rib@cord.UUCP (RI Block) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Glatt kosher? Message-ID: <197@cord.UUCP> Date: Tue, 10-Sep-85 10:15:57 EDT Article-I.D.: cord.197 Posted: Tue Sep 10 10:15:57 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 11-Sep-85 06:17:54 EDT References: <309@decwrl.UUCP> <3780081@csd2.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Piscataway Lines: 69 Disclaimer: I am not qualified to render an authoritative opinion on kashrut. Asher Schecter (reproduced below) has given all the technical information. There is some additional background information that may be useful. There are many defects that render an animal unfit as trefah, however, since the majority of such defects are noted in conjunction with the lungs, most of the checking occurs there. In Eastern Europe, animals were commonly slaughtered on the owner's premises, on an as-needed basis. In an era before widespread refrigeration and transportation, a trefah on a large animal was an enormous financial loss because the carcass had minimal salvage value. There is a direction in practical halacha that when significant loss is at stake (hefsed merubah), certain otherwise undesirable actions are considered acceptable. The custom of manipulating the lungs in the case of doubtful sirchot is well accepted in most ashkenazi communities in Europe. I believe that the Hungarian communities were the first to break with this, and glatt has spread throughout the American orthodox scene for some good and some not so good reasons: 1. Hefsed Merubah may not be applicible now that a trefah can be sold for a resonable price. 2. The reliability (in terms of halacha) of the traditional kosher distribution chain is suspect. Because kosher meat looks the same as non-kosher meat, constant surveilance by reliable (meaning shomer shabbat, etc.) individuals is required. While there exist non-glatt markets of unimpeachable integrity, I have seen many where the proprietors and workers do not meet this standard. There is, additionally, widespread suspicion of large-scale involvement by organized crime in the traditional kosher distribution chain. 3. A side effect of "glatt" is that meat is soaked and salted as soon as possible. This not only eliminates problems with the 3-day washing requirement, but helps to see that the job gets done right. 4. Unfortunately, since many more animals are now considered defective, the halachik presumption of majority (rov) which allowed other possible defects to be summarily dismissed, may now be in doubt. Since animals with sircot were only accepted because of great loss, fowl were never involved. Nevertheless, the term glatt has been expanded to mean "reliably kosher" and glatt kosher poultry is sold. Similarly, in many places, unadorned kosher means "kosher style" and glatt kosher means, simply kosher. It goes almost without saying that anyone who plans on "keeping kosher" needs to feel comfortable with the idea of asking questions of a COMPETANT authority. There are, as in all of halacha, many details, especially in "error-recovery". Even though many readers of this net are experts in their own specialties, there is generally no sense of shame in asking questions of a hardware or software guru. For the same reasons, there is no shame in consulting a halachik expert on this, or any other technical aspect of jewish practice. Asher's posting follows: The shulkhan aruch in Yoreh Deah states that if a "sircha" (sort of membrane) is found on the lung of an animal the whole animal is trefah. Therefore the Sefardim only eat from an animal that is "chalak" (smooth, without any sirchas). The Ramma however bring down a view that if the "sircha" can be removed under certain circumstances it is also kosher. Those who want to keep away from any problems however eat "Glatt" (smooth, in yiddush). So Ashkenazim who follow Ramma can eat non-Glatt kosher but the Ramma himself suggests one to eat Glatt. For further information see Yoreh Daeh, Hilchot Trefot 33-36. Asher Schechter