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From: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison )
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: *est-holes*
Message-ID: <5679@tektronix.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 4-Sep-85 17:36:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: tektroni.5679
Posted: Wed Sep  4 17:36:53 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 5-Sep-85 09:57:16 EDT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 71

I see nothing in your posting that compares est with cults.    
You may have lost your sister to the Church of Scientology, but it
does not qualify you to speak of est, or to compare it with cults.

First, a disclaimer/admission.  Although I have been invited to enroll
in the est training (which has now evolved into The Forum), I have 
never participated in either.  My experience comes from participation
in workshops which could be called spinoffs in that the founder(s) of 
the workshop were at one time active in est, and generally acknowledge
Werner Erhardt and/or est for changing their point of view in the world.
I also have several friends who have at one time or another done the
est training and/or Forum, and from discussions with them feel that 
what I gained from my experience in workshops is similar to what they
gained from their est experiences.

I started into Scientology at a much younger age, and it didn't feel
"right" to me, and I spent several hours getting my guaranteed money
back.   Now I can't say for sure that it was more than just where I
was in my development cycle  (approximately 5 years difference), but
my instincts tell me that what the Scientologists were teaching me
was a suppression of my thoughts and feelings, while what I learned
in these other workshops was an *expression* of my thoughts and feelings.
I look at Scientology as somewhere in the gray area of cults.  

A major difference that I see is that est and est-like organizations
do not attempt to take people out of their environments.  They do not
attempt to control their environments outside the Center.   My personal
opinion is that control of the environment is central to the brain-
washing that goes on inside of cults.  Even during the workshops,
people routinely leave the Center for meal breaks, and return to their
homes between daily sessions.

Rather than attempting to entrap folks into a lifestyle focused on 
the worship of another human as "a divine man", these workshops focus
on empowering the individual to make a difference not only in one's
own life, but in the lives of people around us (admittedly to their
dismay, sometimes :-), and in the world.

Moira Mallison
Generic Woman
tektronix!moiram


In article <1339@utcsri.UUCP> Ray Allen  writes:
>In article <914@oddjob.UUCP> matt@oddjob.UUCP (Matt Crawford) writes:
>>Hmm... has anyone considered comparing the EST-like groups to 
>>the Hare-Krishna-like groups?  There seem to be some points of
>>similarity.
>
>	In his book "MOONWEBS" Josh Freed makes exactly this comparison.
>Essentially, the book documents the experiences that he and a group of friends
>had while trying to rescue a mutual friend from the clutches of the
>Unification Church (a.k.a. The Moonies).  He then goes on to try to
>explain (in lay terms) the psychological process by which the Moonies
>and other groups massage people's minds into a "suitable" form.
>Its REALLY scary when you realize that *anyone* is susceptable to such
>mind control.  (This ain't no Count Floyd guff either).  Freed makes the
>point quite clearly that preparadness will help you very little.  The biggest
>mistake you can make is thinking that you are "strong" enough to "resist"
>their techniques.
>
>	If there is interest I can post some quotes from the book.  I
>guess that there is a reasonable question as to whether this is actually
>relevant to net.singles so if anyone can suggest another group I'll
>put it there.
>
>				Ray Allen
>				utcsri!ray
>
>P.S.  I know that of which I speak.  I recently "lost" my sister to the Church
>      of Scientology.