Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site bmcg.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!qantel!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!bmcg!rick From: rick@bmcg.UUCP (Rick Yarbrough) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: men dominate net.women (flame-ish) Message-ID: <1848@bmcg.UUCP> Date: Tue, 3-Sep-85 18:27:59 EDT Article-I.D.: bmcg.1848 Posted: Tue Sep 3 18:27:59 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 8-Sep-85 05:08:42 EDT Organization: Burroughs Corp. ASG, San Diego, CA. Lines: 109 > > I think > > many women read it, (or would read it) but don't want to get involved > > in these often trivial discussions (like myself). Plus, many of you > > guys come off as if you'd chew them up and spit them out. (Some of > > you are often *truely* unkind.) I'm sure I will receive a lot of flames > > for this ungenteel submission, but I couldn't keep quiet about male > > monopolization any more. > > > > Karla Rikansrud > > drutx!karla > > Well, I think, for the most part, that I have kept my mouth shut > here, but now I'm really mad. > > Out of one side of your mouth you waiving the flag for equal > treatment, freedom to compete with men, more power for women, etc., > and out of the other side you seem to be saying that you women just > don't have what it takes to "dominate" this forum, so we men should > "let" you dominate it. > > Karla, I wish I could say all this to you in person, because I think > we would both do a better job of listening, but... > > If you want power, you have to make it. Yourself. Or in concert with > other people who feel the way you do. You do *not* get it by asking > others to give it to you, which is what you are suggesting here. If > you have to ask for it, you don't deserve it. > > The only reason net.women is not dominated by women is because the > women don't post articles--you admit this yourself. If you want to > change the topic to breast cancer, don't ask the men to do it for > you, do it yourself. Get all the women that you know to post an > article about it along with you. > > Karla, I am never going to step aside and let someone have what I > have worked for, *just* because they are female, or black, or have > six toes. You will have to prove that you are equal to me on a > level playing field. Affirmative action is a sad excuse for > equality; it merely makes discrimination legal. And note that I > support fully whatever it takes to create a level playing field, for > both of us! But affirmative action is not it, and I think you > already have equal opportunity on the net. > > Best regards, > Andy Cohill > (A male of the species) > {ihnp4|allegra}houxm!whuxl!whuts!amc I hope those of you on the net will bear with me for a short while. Although I have been reading various nets for quite some time, I have never really had the desire to get into some of the childish (in my opinion) fights, quarrels, or plain out-and-out wars I have seen develop here. However, I just read an article that really got to me. Let me state that I feel anyone who so wishes, has the right to express their opinion on any subject that may cross the net. However, I also feel (notice the word "I") that we each have a responsibility to do so in an adult manner. Some of the (mudslinging) differences sound more like something I would expect to hear in an elementary school yard. I don't claim to be anywhere near perfect, and I have been known to say some very stupid things. However, due to the fact that this is not an immediate response environment; there is really no reason (in my opinion) for some of the remarks. As stated before, I feel everyone is entitled to an opinion; and I have found some very useful information and some very interesting discussions. In most of the cases where I have seen endless arguments, it seems people are no longer expressing their opinions, but more like trying to force their ideas on others. The particular article that upset me was in net.women. I realize that all nets are open to everyone, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this particular net (I believe) was actually created for the discussion of women's ideas and problems. I myself started reading this net to see what women's ideas and feelings were on the various subjects that seemed to be important to them. I don't necessarily think that anyone (male) is wrong for posting to this group, or that their "OPINIONS" aren't valid, but perhaps they would "LEARN" something if they took more time to read and spent less time writing. After all, some of the topics here really are "WOMENS" topics. Some topics may be more of an opinion subject than others, but (in my opinion), there are some things which men can only guess about, and I see very few men on the net willing to admit this. Have any other men besides myself, ever considered the possibility that the ladies might like to discuss things which may be a little embarassing to them considering that everyone has access to the net, and considering the sometimes rather juvenile responses???? I really don't know how the majority of the women feel about this, but I am rather certain that the flames and downright rude behavior of a few don't help them to open up about some subjects. I don't agree with the particular person who wrote the article which upset me. I feel we have a right to submit our opinions, but I really don't feel we have a "RIGHT" to dominate the net. As I stated above, I started reading this net to get women's insight to things. If some of the other men on this net feel they are more qualified to tell me how a woman feels about things being discussed than the women themselves; I really would appreciate your enlightenment. I'm afraid I can't even tell you how other men feel about some topics, as I don't seem to have the same outlook as the man who posted the article I disagreed with or some of the others who have openly stated that they thought women should be back in the home cooking and taking care of the children.