Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site kitty.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!rochester!rocksvax!rocksanne!sunybcs!kitty!larry From: larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) Newsgroups: net.ham-radio,net.dcom,net.video Subject: Re: Re: Listen to phone calls on your tvro Message-ID: <435@kitty.UUCP> Date: Mon, 16-Sep-85 18:53:39 EDT Article-I.D.: kitty.435 Posted: Mon Sep 16 18:53:39 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 19-Sep-85 04:29:27 EDT References: <338@nicmad.UUCP> <780@vortex.UUCP> <95@l5.uucp> Organization: Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, NY Lines: 55 Xref: watmath net.ham-radio:3253 net.dcom:1303 net.video:1517 > The last time the wiretapping laws were hacked, the NSA suggested (and ^^^ > got) a small wording change that effectively makes it legal to listen > in AS LONG AS YOU ONLY LISTEN TO TELCO SIGNALLING rather than user > data/speech. This means that, for example, receiving microwave phone > transmissions is defensible if your equipment filters out all but the > "who called who" info. They wanted this because it gives them a legal > reason to have tapping equipment always installed. (Who's to know if > their equipment happens to switch to recording speech or data if an > interesting phone number makes or receives a call?) > > It would be interesting to see them try you for it -- if they found > you guilty, you could sue the government to stop the NSA. > > Please correct me if I'm wrong, Lauren. You are partially wrong. NSA does not NEED an excuse to monitor telecomunications traffic - the 'interest of national security' says it all. The real agencies who benefit from this decision are law enforcement agencies like the FBI, DEA, local police, etc. Telephone toll statements (and therefore signalling information) has ALWAYS been freely available to law enforcement agencies - in many cases without even requiring a subpoena. This has been considered to be no more than accounting information, and does not come under the pervue of eavesdropping statutes. Local dialed numbers have historically been available at the request of law enforcement agencies; if central office equipment did not automatically record this information, the telephone company would install a dialed number recorder ('pen register'). There has never been any restriction on obtaining this information by bona fide law enforcement agencies. In general, up until about ten years ago only the telephone company could install a dialed number recorder. As a result of some court decisions (including People vs Stewart 1973 in NY State), law enforcement agencies were permitted ON THEIR OWN and WITHOUT THE ASSISTANCE of the telephone company, to attach dialed number recorders to a subject's telephone line. ONLY a bona fide law enforcement agency has this right. My personal opinion is that the telephone companies should be more cooperative with law enforcement agencies insofar as furnishing dialed number information; such cooperation would eliminate any claims that law enforcement agencies might be listening in. However, most telephone companies tend NOT to cooperate with law enforcement agencies due to a fear of 'bad press'; as a result of this NON-cooperation in the past, law enforcement agencies have been permitted to take this matter into their own hands. I am certain that a number of people will be upset that their dialed number information COULD be obtained by a law enforcement agency without the benefit of any judicial proceeding authorizing same. However, if you are not doing anything illegal which would MOTIVATE a law enforcement agency to take this rather EXTREME step, then you really shouldn't lose any sleep over the possibility... +++ Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York +++ +++ UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry +++ +++ VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice,shell}!baylor!/ +++ +++ FAX 716/741-9635 {AT&T 3510D} syr!buf!/ +++ +++ TELEX 69-71461 ansbak: ELGECOMCLR {via WUI} ihnp4!/ +++ +++ +++ +++ "Have you hugged your cat today?" +++ Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com