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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!qantel!dual!lll-crg!seismo!rochester!ray
From: ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank)
Newsgroups: net.kids,net.legal,net.politics
Subject: Re: corporal punishment in schools (and ACLU)
Message-ID: <11821@rochester.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 24-Sep-85 12:35:01 EDT
Article-I.D.: rocheste.11821
Posted: Tue Sep 24 12:35:01 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Sep-85 04:10:33 EDT
References: <2149T3B@psuvm> 11212@rochester.UUCP <2163T3B@psuvm> <11254@rochester.UUCP> <225@3comvax.UUCP>
Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept.
Lines: 66
Xref: watmath net.kids:2103 net.legal:2392 net.politics:11224

> [Help!  I'm being gobbled up by a Line Eater Monst...]
> 
> Ray Frank writes about the ACLU:  
> 
> > Here in Rochester the ACLU prevented the police dept. from issuing good
> > driving tickets to motorists deserving them.  It was only a good will drive
> > by the police dept.,  but the ACLU said it was unconstitutional.
> 
> Maybe some people didn't *want* to be stopped on the road, to
> have their licenses and the interiors of their cars inspected by
> police, merely so the department could, as a ``good will drive,''
> issue ``good driving tickets to motorists deserving [sic] them.''  
> It seems to me to be a quite elementary Constitutional protection
> that persons be stopped and questioned by police only when they are
> doing something *wrong*, not when they are doing everything *right*!  
> 

The police were not going to look into cars or inspect drivers licenses.
But if there was contraband in clear view inside the car, I don't think
the police could do anything about it anyway due the laws governing unwaranted
stopping of vehicles by a police department.

> > When that 15 yr. old Russian boy wanted to stay in America and not leave the
> > country with his parents several years ago, the ACLU said he must go back.
> 
> I don't agree that the boy should've been forced to go back to Russia.  
> (What's the whole story of the ACLU's involvement in this case, anyway?)  

I don't know anything more than that the ACLU said it was unconstitutional
for the immigration department to give permission to the boy to stay here
against his parent's wishes.

> *However*, Frank, aren't *you* the person who's always claiming that
> parents should have *complete control* over the minds and bodies of
> their children, particularly in cases where (*shudder*) the child might
> learn to think *differently* from his parents' beliefs?  Isn't enforcing
> their ``parental rights,'' as you describe them, over the will and mind
> of their child *precisely* what the boy's parents were attempting to do?  
> 
You are right, there is a conflict here.  If it weren't for the fact that the
parents were from Russia, I would agree that the parents should have authority 
over the immigration department concerning their son's remaining behind in a 
foreign country.  But because they are from a country where oppression by that
government causes undue hardships on it's citizens, I must admit that my
views on the authority of parents as final becomes somewhat colored.  Call
it a double standard or whatever you want, but unusual circumstances do
necesitate exceptions to rules.  I see it as a child not wanting to go back
to an abusing environment.  Be it abuse by a country or abuse by parents,
the child recognized his plight and wished to endure it no more, and was
granted the right to not to have to endure it any further.
 
No, I have never claimed that parents or anyone else should have 'complete
control' over the minds and bodies of their children.  I don't know how you
came to that conclusion.  Perhaps from reading my views concerning the role
of Planned Parenthood as an interferring organization?  But in any case, if
parents are deemed not worthy of the title, then appropriate measures must
be taken, just being parents does not right them make.

> ________________
> 
> Michael McNeil
> 3Com Corporation     ``All disclaimers including this one apply''
> (415) 960-9367
> ..!ucbvax!hplabs!oliveb!3comvax!michaelm

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