Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site oberon.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!hplabs!sdcrdcf!oberon!walker From: walker@oberon.UUCP (Mike Walker) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory,net.legal Subject: Re: JoSH's "Statism" Message-ID: <113@oberon.UUCP> Date: Sat, 14-Sep-85 21:33:49 EDT Article-I.D.: oberon.113 Posted: Sat Sep 14 21:33:49 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 19-Sep-85 04:34:05 EDT References: <535@brl-tgr.ARPA> <987@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: U. of So. Calif., Los Angeles Lines: 35 Xref: watmath net.politics.theory:1100 net.legal:2354 What is a society? One can think of a society as a people with customs and institutions for relating with one and other. These social instituions are what organize daily life. Some of them are informal (not proscribed by coersive rules) like dating. Some are formal (proscribed by coersive rules) like taxation. Government is formal. It has to be since hurts some people and helps others. People won't go along voluntarily if they're going to be hurt. So government must threaten to hurt them even more if they don't go along. Dating is not coersive. If someone doesn't like it, they just go their separate way. Noncoersive or voluntary instituions must be mutually (though not necessarily equally) benificial or one of the parties would leave. What people like me and possible JoSh want is to replace government by an arrangement of informal institutions to organize society. By being being informal they do not coerce (well they don't initiate coercion). Thus presumably all human relationships must be beneficial or one of the parties would terminate the relationship. Perhaps Tony thinks that it is alright to hurt some people to help others, to use some people as mere means to his ends without the reciprocation of a voluntary relationship. Thus he likes coersive institutions such as government since it allows him to use people as mere means (slaves) to his ends without doing the dirty work (the violence) himself. Doesn't it seem a little contridictory to hurt people in order to help other people? Anyhow, if the "fabric of society" is woven of chains then I'd like to see that fabric torn. Instead it should be a fabric of cooperation. Mike Walker walker@oberon.UUCP (I think?) PS yeah it was that fabric of society remark that ticked me off and initiated this diatribe Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com