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From: inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson)
Newsgroups: net.legal,net.religion
Subject: Re: Swearing in Court - Separation of Church/State
Message-ID: <707@tpvax.fluke.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Sep-85 13:34:47 EDT
Article-I.D.: tpvax.707
Posted: Fri Sep 27 13:34:47 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Sep-85 08:06:09 EDT
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Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
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Xref: watmath net.legal:2397 net.religion:7807

> I notice that in TV court scenes (shaky evidence) and in the
> court system of Georgia a witness is required to raise his
> right hand and repeat (approximately):
> 
> "I swear (or affirm) that I will tell the truth, the whole
> truth, and nothing but the truth...so help me God."
> 
> Doesn't the swearing, the invocation of God's name (or a god's
> name if you prefer), and (on TV anyway) the laying of the left
> hand on the Christian Bible constitute some kind of mingling
> of Church and State that the ACLU types get so exercised
> about ??
> 
> Here it is right in the  heart of our judicial system.

This topic comes up periodically here on the net, and I'd like to take a
crack at explaining it. As I understand it, the concept of "Separation of
Church and State" (SOCAS) was intended to take care of two possible dangers
the founding parents saw:

    1) They wanted to avoid having a "state religion", like the Church of
       England.

    2) They didn't want their governmment meddling in their religious
       affairs. 

Note that nowhere did they mention separation of "god" and state , but
CHURCH and state, two entirely different things. In fact, they took as the
motto of the infant nation, "In God We Trust". Our pledge of allegiance
includes the line, "...one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all". Neither of these constitute a danger that there will be a
state religion nor that the government will meddle in your freedom to
practice Druidism or any other religion. (BTW, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the pyramid and eye on the Great Seal of the United States?)

The mention of god in matters of state is nowhere excluded, and really why
should it be? Simply saying that we trust in god has nothing to do with
religion. I myself am not religious, but happen to believe in a power
greater than myself. It is convenient to refer to this concept as "god"
because it has a universal connotation among those who have a belief in it,
and yet doesn't address the side-issue of any person's affiliation, rituals,
belief structure, and all the other accoutrements of organized religion.
If the majority of the Nation decided that we should be godless, then we
would probably vote in represntatives who held similar beliefs, and
legislate a separtion of god and state as well. Since the majority do not
feel that, there is no such separation.

> I will not swear an oath in any court room that I will tell
> the truth.

Why not? If you don't believe in god, what difference can it make? In that
case, it certainly would not be a moral issue, so why hassle it? If you do
believe in god, then it seems like a terrific forum for affirming that
belief. If it is because fuzzy thinking results in the equation

    god = church

then maybe you ought to look up some definitions in your Funk & Wagnall's.
If it is because you have no intention of telling the truth, then that is a
whole nother matter.

*** THE MEDIUM IS THE MASSAGE ***


-- 
 Gary Benson  *  John Fluke Mfg. Co.  *  PO Box C9090  *  Everett WA  *  98206
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