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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!qantel!dual!mordor!ut-sally!im4u!jsq
From: jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Newsgroups: net.mail
Subject: Re: The TRUTH about .UUCP
Message-ID: <568@im4u.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 1-Oct-85 14:31:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: im4u.568
Posted: Tue Oct  1 14:31:54 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 5-Oct-85 03:13:49 EDT
References: <593@down.FUN> <10476@ucbvax.ARPA> <12317@Glacier.FUN> <10490@ucbvax.ARPA> <12347@Glacier.FUN>
Reply-To: jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Distribution: net
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 57
Keywords: domains, honogeneity, central authority, anarchy!
Summary: Everybody can coexist, so nobody has to prove they're right.

In article <12347@Glacier.FUN> reid@Glacier.FUN (Brian Reid) writes:
>In article <10490@ucbvax.ARPA> jordan@ucbvax.BOGUS (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>>    Honeyman and his troops (yes, this now includes you, Mr. Reid)
>>    are too far into the problem to ...
>>		[meow, woof, growl, etc.]
>>    	"Lead, follow, or get the hell out of my way"
>
>I've already sent Peter a letter asking for my first paycheck; I sent him my
>caps lock key as proof of identity.

Well, you've at least adopted one of peter's favorite methods of argument:
ignore anything cogent your opponent said and baldly reassert that none
of your questions have been answered.  By the way, you used caps.  Nyah nyah.

(End of obligatory character assasination which has become traditional
in this discussion.)

>It is completely impossible to achieve homogeneity, such as that required by
>domain schemes, without central authority.

You seem to have forgotten that why the Internet is moving to domains
is exactly to *decentralize*, not to centralize.  Until now, the
Internet has used a huge centralized table (HOSTS.TXT) of all host
names and addresses in the Internet.  With domains, all the name
assignments that have to be centralized are the top level domains.
Second level domains do not have to be recognized by any Internet-wide
central authority, only within their top-level domains.  And so forth.
We've got lots of hosts in CS.UTEXAS.EDU and UTEXAS.EDU that nobody
outside of UTEXAS.EDU in the Internet knows exist, nor needs to.

Now, in UUCP, we also have a huge, centralized table:  the one posted
to mod.map.  It's even more out of date and inaccurate than the
Internet HOSTS.TXT, due to the slow nature of the underlying transport
mechanisms of the UUCP net and its anarchic nature.  We also have an
authority for top level domains under the UUCP domain:  the people who
currently maintain mod.map.  What domains bring us on UUCP is just what
they bring us in the Internet:  decentralization, not centralization.
Yes, name service has to be handled somewhat differently, but how it
can be done has been spelled out by others.

You assume that central authority is required because you assume
homogeneity is required.  That's not so, either.  This has been pointed
out over and over by many people.  Domains and old-style bangist
source-routing can, will, and do coexist.  Not everybody has to use
domains for domains to be useful.

Your basic assumptions are incorrect, so your argument is false.
But, then, nobody has to prove either side of this argument correct
beforehand, anyway, *because* both source routing and domains can coexist.


However, I agree with your appeal to history.  Wait and see.  Now that
Gary Murakami isn't with ihnp4 anymore, we may see the old UUCP structure
crumble even faster....
-- 
John Quarterman,   UUCP:  {ihnp4,seismo,harvard,gatech}!ut-sally!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET:  jsq@sally.UTEXAS.EDU, formerly jsq@ut-sally.ARPA


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