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From: lucy@prism.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: Second person singular
Message-ID: <9500004@prism.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Sep-85 10:45:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: prism.9500004
Posted: Tue Sep 17 10:45:00 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 22-Sep-85 23:59:59 EDT
References: <2058@dutoit.UUCP>
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Nf-ID: #R:dutoit:-205800:prism:9500004:000:1711
Nf-From: prism!lucy    Sep 17 10:45:00 1985


As a former Philadelphian, I can attest to the Quaker usage of "thee" where
the standard English declension of the personal pronoun would call for
"thou".  "Thee" is used in the nominative, not "thou".  My understanding is
that Friends use plain speech not only with family members, but also with
other Friends.  "You" is reserved for non-Friends (need I say more?) and is
a formal, distancing usage.  

The irony here is that the original Quaker usage of the second person singular
rather than plural was a political act, a defiance of the social code which
reserved "you" for conversation between the aristocracy.  As was (and to
a real extent still is) the case in most of the Western European languages,
the second person singular had a double edge.  It could indicate profound
intimacy, when used with family members and *very* good friends; but it also,
when addressed to social inferiors (or those perceived to be so), clearly
indicated the superiority of the speaker.
This usage is breaking down in western Europe, particularly among students.
But addressing strangers with the second person singular can still
be an insult.  I have seen cited as an example of racism in France 
the tendency of clerks to use "tu" when dealing with Arab customers.

That the social distinctions in pronouns meant a great deal in sixteenth
century England is indicated by the following tale (a counter-example to
that of the Quaker children).  During the treason trial of Walter
Raleigh, one of his accusers made a speech, addressing Raleigh in the
second person singular.  Lest there be any misunderstanding about his
motives (or his grammar), this fellow concluded with the fiery line,
"And I thou thee, thou traitor!"


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