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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: THe Moral Value of Conformity
Message-ID: <1716@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Sep-85 00:23:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1716
Posted: Tue Sep 17 00:23:54 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Sep-85 03:08:04 EDT
References: <1647@pyuxd.UUCP> <1524@umcp-cs.UUCP> <1672@pyuxd.UUCP> <120@l5.uucp>
Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
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>>By being what others would like you to be rather than being what
>>you yourself would like to be (or being/doing what you need to be/do), you are
>>acting against your own self-interest.  It's that simple.  It is precisely
>>because I (and you) don't know what's best for everyone that individual
>>self-development is what I support instead the repugnant notion that
>>conformity is a worthwhile thing.  Conformity is a trade-off you choose to
>>make or not make, but it is certainly not in your interest, and advertising it
>>as such as deceptive.  (Which is of course what certain religions do.) [ROSEN]

> Rich, I think your heart is on the right place, but you have stuffed 2 notions
> together wich cannot be stuffed. If, in conforming, you are acting against
> your own self interest, then we will agree that this conforming is bad.
> [However, I would conclude, not that conforming is repugnant, but that the
> more general not acting in your own self interest is repugnant.] However, I
> think that to conform or not to conform is a trade-off which you make and
> which you should always make in your perceived self-interest. [LAURA]

But WHY is conforming (in this case) in your self-interest, perceived or real?
Only because the moral code of the society around you demands it, requires it,
or at bare minimum encourages it.  And that is the central issue:  WHY should
it do that?  What benefits does it offer to anyone?  Sure, it offers ME some
positive benefit if YOU conform, but what benefit do YOU get for doing so?
The whole point is that a moral code that encourages and practically requires
conformity for survival in the first place is fucked.  Is there a mutuality
here that is to everyone's benefit, the way refraining from interfering in
other people's lives does?  Or is the only real benefit to that ephemeral
entity called society as a whole?  I think you have it backwards, Laura.
Conformity is clearly detrimental to your own personal interests.  If
circumstances make it necessary for your personal interest, is it the
expression of your individuality (failure to conform) that is bad, or the
circumstances (the moral code) that forces that upon you?

> *But* all of these take work and time which you could spend doing something
> else.  So, if you decide to do this then there will be other areas of your
> life which do not get your attention -- and (as an exercise left to the
> reader) this is the tough part about determining what is in your
> self-interest.

But the question is WHY is it tough?  Why does it take up so much work and
time and effort? Because it's "supposed" to be that way?  Or because a
moral code encourages conformity as a rule?
-- 
Meanwhile, the Germans were engaging in their heavy cream experiments in
Finland, where the results kept coming out like Swiss cheese...
				Rich Rosen 	ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr	


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