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From: baba@spar.UUCP (Baba ROM DOS)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Science & Philosophy vs Rosenism
Message-ID: <559@spar.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 3-Oct-85 05:20:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.559
Posted: Thu Oct  3 05:20:04 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 5-Oct-85 02:35:27 EDT
References: <1495@pyuxd.UUCP> <2197@pucc-h> <1510@pyuxd.UUCP>
Organization: The Institute of Impure Science
Lines: 26

>Because you haven't been listening (apparently).  Free will means the ability
>to act independently of physical constraints, whether from the surrounding
>environment, or the insides of one's own body.  Think about what religionists 
>mean when they speak of "free will" to choose between right and wrong.  Clearly
>they are referring to an ability to make a choice regardless of one's physical
>make-up:  choosing not to sin despite the physical desire to do so.  Can you
>act contrary to your physical make-up without an external agent to do so for
>you INDEPENDENT of your make-up? [Rich Rosen]

Again, I must question the inclusion of "the insides of one's own body" as a 
physical constraint on one's decisions.  If we assume pure materialism, any 
decision not only *depends* on body-state, it *is* body state, like memory, 
consciousness, and most of the other good things in life.  How can one talk
about making decisions independently of everything that one experiences, 
remembers, and *is*?  Acting contrary to one's physical desire is not
at all the same thing as acting contrary to one's physical make-up.

The concept of "free will" in moral philosophy can still be accommodated in 
a materialist universe.  For instance, one can view it as an assumption of
the primacy of internal state relative to external stimuli in determining 
behavior.  "Sin" can be attached to an individual whose internal state leads 
to "wrong" actions, while an individual performing the same actions unknowingly
and unthinkingly (i.e. independently of such internal state) might not be 
"sinning".  

						Baba


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