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From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: More Atheistic Wishful Thinking
Message-ID: <563@spar.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 4-Oct-85 05:40:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.563
Posted: Fri Oct  4 05:40:37 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 5-Oct-85 15:17:01 EDT
References: <696@utastro.UUCP> <1560@umcp-cs.UUCP> <733@psivax.UUCP> <279@utflis.UUCP>
Reply-To: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Lines: 69

>>..Certainly the modern concept
>>of a *disembodied* soul is just that, relatively recent. Early
>>Christian and Jewish writers had no such concept. It is interesting
>>how easily we read occidental dualisitc interpretations into biblical
>>language which really has no such sgnificance. - Sarima

>I agree. The Genesis account speaks of man *becoming* a living soul, not 
>of *receiving* one and the Bible frequently speaks of various animals as
>souls, or of the soul of a person as the whole being including physical
>body, personality, and spirit or life force.  The early Hebrew writers  did
>not anticipate their "immortal soul" living on after death.  They hoped that
>God would remember them, as an individual, and resurrect them to life on
>earth again -- as the same person.  The Hebrew word used for soul is nephesh,
>and carries this meaning.  The Greek word psyche was used to translate these
>statements when they are quoted by early Christian Biblical writers without
>a change in the concept.  The current common religious belief in an immortal 
>soul seems to have originated in Greek philosophy. - Susan

    Many anthropologists report that it is common for members of certain 
    cultures to speak of losing their souls; such a person is said to behave
    without direction or purpose (perhaps similar to a severe depression).
    Some suppose that such `primitive' people are delicately poised on
    the brink of consciousness, and that without the correct stimulus
    from the supporting members of one's community, in particular, if
    one receives enough evil eyes and so on, one may sink back into
    lower animal preconscious. The appropriate spell from a curandero
    is reportedly restorative. It is not surprising that Jung was so
    interested in such lore, or that psychologists are called `shrinks',
    for that matter.

    Such a concept -- one who shares awareness with our group -- implies a
    kind of immortality, since one thereby participates in the perpetuation of
    the group's existence.  Note too, that animals and infidels are
    typically candidates for enslavement and killing -- after all, they are
    said to have no souls.

    Around 2500 years ago, there appears to have been a general heightening
    of awareness around the globe, in each place stressing a different kind
    of mental experience that ultimately characterized the later cultural
    evolution -- Taoism, Confucianism, Jainism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism,
    and Pythagorean numerology.

    The ancient Greeks had many concepts of just what the soul was.  In
    their search for immutable perfection in the face of short and brutish
    life, the answer to the question:

        What impermanence is attainable by humans?

    ..was answered through a decided busy form of introspection.

    Philosophy, the cultivation of the intellect, led to the Greeks'
    eternal achievements -- geometry, mathematics, logic, science..,
    and their thoughts literally live in our minds today.

    The very notion of Socratic or maieutic (maieusomai = to act as midwife)
    method of education (e-ducere = to draw out) reflects the belief that a
    teacher only aids the student in remembering knowledge forgotten, but
    still dormant, in one's eternal soul.  Note too, that empirical
    induction was not considered very important, since the only worthwile
    truth was to be found within.

    There were, of course, other Greek schools with conflicting views.  But
    few ancient notions have played a more influential role in western
    culture than the Platonic idea that one's telos, final cause, soul, or
    reason for existence, is none other than reason itself.

    "Carry data chop logic"

-michael


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