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From: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M Koloc)
Newsgroups: net.physics
Subject: Re: Electron radius and grains
Message-ID: <180@prometheus.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 14-Sep-85 16:08:07 EDT
Article-I.D.: promethe.180
Posted: Sat Sep 14 16:08:07 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 17-Sep-85 05:31:28 EDT
References: <522@sri-arpa.ARPA> <954@oddjob.UUCP> <179@prometheus.UUCP> <956@oddjob.UUCP>
Organization: Prometheus II Ltd., College Park, MD
Lines: 78

The author taunts:
>> I believe Scott mentioned something of order 10^(-18) meters for the
>> electron radius of an electron at rest.   Now where do you think
>> Scotty got that number from?

> Scott Anderson kaos!sra Message <956@oddjob.UUCP> answers:
> Not an electron at rest, an electron who's position is 
> known exactly.
> 
> One can also go to the literature for the actual experimental 
> results; .. .  an e+e- collision experiment, and on the basis 
> of this and other experimental results, physicists have 
> concluded that electrons >       {see: B.L. Beron, et al., 
> Phys. Rev. Lett. 33, 663 (1974)}.  are much smaller 
> {~10^(-17) meters} than predicted by the classical electromagnetic 
> arguments recently discussed {3*10^(-15) meters}.

The phrase "electron on rest" doesn't refer to a "stopped" or 
"exactly positioned"  electron.  I meant to say one with a its 
mass approximately the "rest mass"  so its velocity is less than, 
for example, 1/3 light speed.  

The original proposition put out here, and Scotty seems to agree, is 
that an electron has "extent" regardless of its kinetic energy.  So 
philosophically speaking its not a "mathematical point", and a size
of 10^(-18) meters is as significant as 10^(-15) meters.  These 
extensive "smudges" are both too excessively large to be mathematical
points. 

My claim is that matter is subdivided into discrete entities 
(particles) which have both operator and array characteristics 
(quark-like?).  A particle is then both an array of information 
grains and operates on this array existence-wise.  Anyway, distance 
in time and space (meters and seconds) are sort of a huge values of 
microscopically averaged measures over the "local" region of space 
that we occupy.  When we get to "teensy weensy dinky winky" little tiny 
chunks of space or time the damn stuff is grainy and that is exactly 
where the cited experiment is located.  So to get a better idea of 
measure we should think of space and time as a clumpy ocean of grains 
(information or existence), and then measure distance as the number 
of grains one "encounters" or processes to get from one location to 
another in space or time.

The "size" of an electron is more how many grains does it "span". 
To translate that into meters or seconds one has to look at the
grain density in that location and within the span of the particle
(electron) and then compare it with the "averaged local macro"
grain density.  How? Glad you asked!.  

In this case we want to compare an electron with mass of one electron 
rest mass, with another hyperkinetic electron of mass equal to ~4000 *
the electron rest mass. The grain density of a particle is related 
to the square root of the its energy or "mass".  Guess what Scotty,  
if you look at them thar electron positron photon X speriment you'all
cited. ..  well it's a few GeV of energy (giga electron volts).  
That's order of 10^(+9) electron volts, which beats out our half 
MeV  (rest mass) electron, by a fair shake.   Let me see square 
root of 4 * 10^(+3) is hmmmm .. ~63.   Voila!, that's order 100 less 
than the radius of an electron with mass approximately the electron 
rest mass or down to r=~10-(17) meters.  Amazing, huh! That classical 
calculation is NOT as bad as they first thought!  A grain of truth. 

Now we should be able to predict a little more about relativistic 
electrons that "pop" into the inside of a nucleus.  And everybody
knows how big a nucleus is.   By the way this space "contraction"
is a well known effect.  Consider how roomy Doctor Who's tartis
is once you get inside.   Boy, this is a big phone booth!
             Physics text books make great history.
                "Give me all she's got, Scotty."  
                      "Aye, Captain"

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