Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ames.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!oliveb!hplabs!ames!barry From: barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion Subject: Re: "Secular Humanism" banned in the US Schools. Message-ID: <1137@ames.UUCP> Date: Fri, 13-Sep-85 16:05:13 EDT Article-I.D.: ames.1137 Posted: Fri Sep 13 16:05:13 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 18-Sep-85 03:31:17 EDT References: <1072@ulysses.UUCP> <607@hou2g.UUCP> <11384@rochester.UUCP> <314@rruxo.UUCP> <11464@rochester.UUCP> Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA Lines: 70 Xref: watmath net.politics:11032 net.religion:7670 >Has it ever occured to any of us that this country really IS a religious/ >christian country and should be coined as such to the extent that Iran is >considered a Muslim country, or Russia is considered an atheist country If you notice how Russia and Iran treat those who don't subscribe to their respective state religions, I think no further answer is necessary. >Would it be religious tyranny for the federal government to take a stand on >religious issues? It is religious tyranny for the government to support any particular set of religious beliefs, or to show any special favor to particular religious groups. >Has religious tyranny existed in this country? The Mormons; the Ghost Dance religion; the Quakers; the Jews; the Catholics; all, and many more, have suffered religious oppression in this land. But we have done better in this regard than have most other countries, particularly those with state religions. >The seper- >ation of church and state I believe originally meant that people would have >the freedom to worship as they pleased without government oppression. I >don't believe it meant the exclusion of government in declaring itself to be >of a religious faith if it thought itself as much. This is truly silly. A government doesn't "think of itself" as anything; a government doesn't think. *People* think, and there are no doubt people in government who think of the US as a "Christian" country. Fine by me, as long as they don't try to give their opinions the force of law. >Some people would make the >claim that if our government took a stand on religion that those who believed >differently would be singled out or somehow alienated. I don't think so. The >Constitution and the Bill of Rights protects all the people the same as it >protects members of the Nazis or Communist party even though these people in >principle don't agree with and in some cases would like to abolish our form >of government. If you're advocating some sort of empty statement of principle about the US being Christian, it is both untrue, and a totally fatuous suggestion. If you're advocating something more than an empty statement, then you're talking about giving some religious group special priveleges, and that's discrimination. Either way it's a bad idea. >One final thought, if the Government declared this country to be founded on >the beliefs that upset some people, would those people have a legitimate right >to claim that this declaration was unconstitutional because of a violation of >their rights? The Constitution is, as always, what the Supreme Court says it is. I would think that declaring the US Christian would be about as direct a violation of the 1st Amendment as one could imagine, and fortunately the 9 people whose job it is to decide such things seem likely to agree, based on what they've decided in the past. I would consider people that authored such a law to be either religious bigots, or terminally silly, depending on their intent. The former is unfortunately more likely than the latter, which is why such a declaration would cause me deep concern, and have my active opposition, were it proposed seriously. The Thought Police already have most of the world for their playground; let's not invite them into our homes. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,nsc,hao,hplabs}!ames!barry Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com