Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site lsuc.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!dave From: dave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Weisenthal's Fables Message-ID: <796@lsuc.UUCP> Date: Wed, 18-Sep-85 18:40:09 EDT Article-I.D.: lsuc.796 Posted: Wed Sep 18 18:40:09 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 18-Sep-85 18:59:39 EDT References: <407@decwrl.UUCP> Reply-To: dave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) Organization: Law Society of Upper Canada, Toronto Lines: 114 Summary: Denials of the Holocaust are stupid and vicious Before I embark on a refutation of Don Black's stupid comments, I have one question. Does anyone - ANYONE - out there believe the drivel in his latest posting and doubt that the Holocaust happened? If not, perhaps we should just ignore him. * * * * * > >Not much to build a conspiracy on... > > I don't have to build one---Simon Weisenthal and Eili Wiesel have > already done that. Unfortunately for them, their Holocaustian fable is > like a wedge of Swiss cheese. Full of holes to begin with, and after > it's been out in the sunlight too long, it begins to stink. I don't know whether Don Black is truly evil or just very stupid. "Fable", indeed. Here is a simple exercise which I leave for Don Black and for anyone else who may doubt what happened in the Holocaust: Go to the nearest large city with a Jewish community of any significant size. On, say, a Sunday morning, go into the Jewish stores - delicatessens, or bakeries, butchers, whatever. Pick out, at random, a person over 60 who came from Europe. (Yiddish accents aren't hard to spot.) Go over to that person and tell him that you are curious about the Holocaust and what happened. Do you know what you will find? The person you pick will have been lucky. He survived somehow. Perhaps he was fit and spent years at slave labour instead of being sent to the gas chambers. Or perhaps he was able to get out of Europe in time. But now, ask him about his family - parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins. He'll tell you how he only has one brother left, from a family of perhaps 85. Or how he's the only living Jew from his village, which had 250 Jews. The sad fact is, Jews of my generation, whose parents came from Europe after the war, do not have grandparents. Out of 3,000,000 Jews in Poland, for example, 300,000 survived - only the fittest and hardiest. > What were the 1950 figures from the AJY? And if the 1940 figures > were so inaccurate, how can we be sure that six million Jews died? And > how can we "plot over the years" when we have only three points, one of > which is determined to be inaccurate at best? The Germans, who are sticklers for record-keeping, kept detailed records of transports to Auschwitz and other extermination camps. The figure of 6 million is supported by these records. The world Jewish population went from 18 million in 1938 to 12 million in 1945. Today it's about 14.5 million. Go to Yad Vashem, the museum in Jerusalem which is a memorial to the Holocaust. Yad Vashem has embarked upon a program of recording the names of all those killed. They have THREE MILLION names so far. Where available, they also have photographs, ID documents, etc. Considering that entire communities were wiped out so that there is, in many cases, no-one to list the names of those killed, this is quite remarkable. > Now, it's fairly obvious that at least SOME Jews died in the > concentration camps, from starvation, disease, exhaustion, war-related > injuries, and probably some were gassed toward the end of the war. But > there is much evidence that does NOT support the systematic extermination > of Jews. And there is much evidence which does not support the existence of Don Black. Come now. When the Allies liberated the camps in 1945, the horrors were there for all to see. Go pick up any newspaper of the time and read eyewitness accounts from reporters. Both the U.S. and the British military made films of what they found, documenting the horrible sights for posterity. These films are available. > Alleged eye-witness accounts of the operation of crematoria have > been proven time and again to be totally inaccurate. Sure, Don. Is that why Ernst Zundel was convicted, UNANIMOUSLY, by twelve unbiased, non-Jewish ordinary Canadians, of spreading lies in his denial of the Holocaust? Zundel's defense dredged up all of the slime who made idiotic claims about swimming pools and dance halls at Auschwitz. The jury was convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that Zundel was lying and that he knew he was lying in making his claims. The evidence presented at the trial, by those who were there and SAW the gas chambers and crematoria, was convincing and conclusive. > People who allegedly > died in camps keep meeting each other alive and well on the streets. Certainly there were those who didn't know that others survived. My father-in-law didn't find out his brother was alive for 20 years. But tell me, what about his parents? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles? Cousins? They were killed at Treblinka. > Testimony in the Ernst Zundel trial indicates that at least one of the > "death camps" had a DANCE HALL! And Mrs. Kitty Hart (of "Kitty: The > Return to Auschwitz" fame) claims to have observed the operation of a > crematorium/gas chamber while SUNBATHING ON THE GRASS! Please do not > insult my intelligence by asking me to believe that prisoners in such camps > were given time enough off from slave labor to dance and sunbathe. I certainly won't. There was certainly no dance hall for the prisoners at Auschwitz. The fact that some joker was dredged up to make such a claim hardly rates as "testimony ... rates". If you want to refer to the Zunel trial, I think the conviction speaks for itself. One final question. There is no question that there were large and thriving Jewish communities in every country in central Europe. Where did they all go? -- { ihnp4!utzoo pesnta utcs hcr decvax!utcsri } !lsuc!dave Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com