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From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: Stick it in yer ear.
Message-ID: <999@bunker.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Sep-85 17:20:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: bunker.999
Posted: Mon Sep 23 17:20:53 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Sep-85 03:42:54 EDT
References: <502@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: Bunker Ramo, Trumbull Ct
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Xref: watmath net.politics:11154 net.flame:12022

> ... These four things are usually
> enough to send 5,781,000 "Americans" into catatonic fits.  (I shouldn't
> generalize like that.  There are exceptions.)

Who are these 5,781,000 "Americans" ?

> It's obvious from some of 
> my submissions that I have no use for the Israeli UN Protectorate,

Most of us call it the nation of Israel.  Israel wouldn't last long
relying on the UN for protection.

>      The underlieing reason why Oded et alia want my head is because of my
> religious beliefs.  I happen to believe in Christian Identity.  Pure and 
> simple.  

Odd, then, that your article was posted to net.politics, but
not net.religion.

>      Understand that there is no way that Judaism can tolerate Identity.  The
> two cannot coexist, nor can Identity be allowed to exist at all.  Identity 
> says that Christians are God's Chosen People of the Old Testament, the 
> direct descendants of the Old Testament Israelites.

Suppose someone converts to Christianity from some other religion.
Then suddenly, that person becomes a "direct descendant" of the OT
Israelites, but his parents are not?

> Identity believes that
> the covenants given to the Scriptural Israelites by God are still in full
> force and effect, and that we are bound to obey them.

Then, I suppose, you eat only kosher food, make various kinds of sacrifices,
such as burnt offerings, and so forth?

> We also believe that
> the United States and Canada are the Promised Land of prophesy.

Based on what scriptures?

>      So how widespread is this concept?  The Mormons and the Worldwide Church 
> of God are both considered Identity religions.

Considered by whom?  Do they call themselves that, or are you pinning
a label on them they didn't agree to wear?  And if it is true that
they consider themselves Identity religions, that's about the only
thing they have in common.

> And they are just the 
> beginning.  Most of us belong to mainstream denominations, such as Roman
> Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, etc.

Numbers?

>      Now, some of you may say that this concept is neo-Nazi, racist, anti-
> semetic, etc. ad nauseam.
> [attempted refutation of the charges of neo-Nazism and anti-semitism.]
> ...so Identity MUST be racist.  It's the only thing left.

No, racist is not "the only thing left" with which "Identity" can
be charged.  There's unbiblical.  There's hateful.  There's just
plain wrong (as in, contrary to fact).  And there's chauvinistic
("America First, Without Apology" -- in capital letters yet).

>      Is White Christianity the "master race?"

"White Christianity" isn't even a meaningful term.  Christianity is
the name of a religion, not a race.  Some Christians are Caucasian,
but there's no such thing as "Caucasian Christianity."  Some Christians
are Americans, and some American Christians are Negros.  All sorts of
combinations exist.  Some American Christians are even of Jewish
ancestry -- that would seem to present a thorny problem to "Identity.")

> The other peoples 
> of the Earth go back millions of years before the creation of Adam.

My Bible says that Adam was the first man, Eve was the first woman, 
and that everybody else is descended from this couple.  Who are these
people who supposedly existed before Adam and Eve?

> They were here first, and they were given their own lands.  It is not
> up to > Israel or Esau to take those lands.  (Isreal and Esau, as
> used here, are the two sons of Isaac and their descendants.)

Which lands are you talking about?  Palestine/Israel?  I haven't
heard that anyone other than the Israelis and the Arabs have even
made, let alone substantiated, a claim to that area.  If you mean
U.S./Canada, then to be consistent you should call for the return
of this continent to the various Amerind nations.

> Besides, Christ tells us
> that there is salvation for all flesh that believes in Him.

Make up your mind; is Christianity for everyone who believes in
Christ, or for those who are descended from the Old Testament
Israelites?

>      Identity is basically a study of anthropology and geneology.  We know 
> from secular history that the Israelites departed Palestine and fled into 
> the Caucasus Mountains (hence the term "Caucasian" to describe a person who
> is of the "White" race).

References?

> The most obvious marks of the true Israelites is that they would be completely
> blind as to who they were,

Then you are obviously not one of the true Israelites, since you claim
to know who you are.  (And is this supposedly a Biblical prophecy?)
I, on the other hand, am likely to be a true Israelite, since I don't
think I am descended from the OT Israelites.

> that they would speak with stammering tongues
> (the most difficult language on Earth is English),

Says who?  For me, I think Chinese is more difficult -- I cannot
tell the difference between words which differ only in pitch.  But
in any case, how can you measure the difficulty of a language?

> and that they would be called by a different name.

Again, if you claim that you are one of the true Israelites, then
you don't fit this criterion, and therefore your claim disproves
itself.

> All other scriptural prophesy will apply only to the true Israel.

Give some (one?) examples of scriptural prophecy which wasn't
fulfilled by the end of the second century C.E.  (Other than
the end of the world, of course.)

> Are the Jews as numerous as the stars in the sky?

If you want to take such statements literally, no, but then,
neither is any other people.

>      Somebody on the net tried to start a discussion recently about "what if
> the US really were a Christian Nation?"  Originally, it was.  Our laws
> were based on the concepts of Mosaic law of the Old Testament.

*Some* of our laws resemble *some* of the laws in the Mosaic law.
Others do not.  For example, the law of Moses said that slaves were
to be set free in the seventh year -- I don't recall hearing of any
such law in the U.S.  Also, all debts were to be forgiven in the
seventh year, according to Moses.

>      So let Feingold and Rosen and Dimitrovsky and the rest call me all the 
> names they want.  They have no other choice but to do so.  

I agree that name-calling accomplishes little.  It never worked for
me, :-) and I don't see it working for anyone else.  For example, you
probably aren't going to win much support among Christians by calling them
"Alka-Seltzer."  If, on the other hand, you would like to post the
scriptures which you think support the concepts of "Identity," then
I'm sure any number of people with a little knowledge of the Bible
will be happy to refute you.

Gary Samuelson


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