Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site nsc.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!nsc!chuqui
From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Subject: Re: So-called uninformed opinions
Message-ID: <3267@nsc.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Sep-85 01:44:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: nsc.3267
Posted: Tue Sep 17 01:44:35 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Sep-85 04:59:31 EDT
References: <1157@mtgzz.UUCP>
Reply-To: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach)
Organization: Uncle Chuqui's Lemming Farm
Lines: 84

In article <1157@mtgzz.UUCP> leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) writes:
>
> >An uninformed opinion is no opinion at all.  If you dont
> >know what you're talking about, please try to do it quietly.
>
>One of the regulars on the net has chosen this to be his signiture [sic]
>line.

m.r. leeper means me....

>That is fine, he can say what he wants.  The line is witty and I
>am in no way attacking the poster who uses it.

Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up... I wasn't sure.

>I would however like to
>disagree with the philosophy itself.  Anybody's opinion is an opinion.
>Whether that opinion really reflects reality or not is another matter.
>It will depend in part on the holder of the opinion and upon his or
>background.  The quoted line as far as I am concerned is one that
>leads to elitism and stagnation.
>
>A person expressing an opinion should make clear where he/she is
>"coming from" so that the reader can better understand why the opinion
>is held.  I am fascinated to know what newcomers to science fiction
>think of the field.

Well, just to clear up any possible misinterpretations (and it seems from
my mail that I might have just hit a raw nerve or two) I happen to agree
wiht mark that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a naive opinion. The
new person, without the bias or the background, is the person most likely
to find the new direction in the field while the experts are all running
around trying to incrementally push out the boundaries. The new and
uninformed simply have never learned that something 'can't be done' and
seem to succeed at it quite well because of it.

My signature line was specifically oriented at the 'expert,' the person
with the attitude of knowledge who doesn't bother to find out whether or
not the facts back him up. "This is what is right because I believe it --
don't bother me with the facts" sums it up quite well, and that attitude is
rampant on the net, as it is in life. 

I'm than happy to put time into discussion a subject that I know with
someone who doesn't, because I keep getting perspectives of things that I
never thought of by trying to make them clear to people new to the ideas
involved. I'll go out of my way to try to explain to a person WHY I believe
it -- it is amazing to think of the number of times I've found myself
supporting unsupportable positions when I actually stopped to describe
them. What I've given up, though, is tolerating people who believe that
"because I said so" is a valid form of argument. Disagreeing with me is
wonderful -- with any luck we'll both learn. "Proving" that your
disagreement is valid by telling me that you don't agree with me and a dime
won't get you a phone call in California anymore. I'm always willing to
back my comments up and attempt to justify them, and I no longer see why I
should expect anything less from the loyal opposition. If your words are
worth reading, folks, they are worth trying (or being willing to try) to
justify. 

>It takes some courage to express an opinion and risk getting into
>conflict with someone who disagrees.  Not many people are willing to do
>it.

It is also becoming MORE difficult because of a number of rather loud
braggarts who seem to enjoy stomping on any unacceptable opinions before
they get out of hand [editorial note: these comments are net-wide, and NOT
aimed at sf-lovers specifically, so don't get uptight unless you think I'm
pointing a finger at you]

>Sure, it never is a bad idea to express your ideas quietly, but also
>express them clearly.  And if it is an opinion on a topic I am
>interested in, express it in my direction.

Hear hear! I couldn't agree more. We could use a lot less bickering and a
lot more criticism. My comment was just my way of saying that I'm not going
to tolerate the bickering any more. I always find time for a discussion
with intelligence, and I hope to find more of that by starting to ignore
the idiots. Maybe if we ALL ignore the idiots they'll take the hint and
leave someday, but I doubt it. And if a normally reasonable person blows
it, call them on it, and maybe they'll blow it less often in the future...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA {decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui

Take time to stop and count the ewoks...


Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com