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From: BARD@MIT-XX.ARPA
Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest   V10 #364
Message-ID: <3697@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19-Sep-85 14:31:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.3697
Posted: Thu Sep 19 14:31:52 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 22-Sep-85 13:29:41 EDT
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Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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From: Bard Bloom <BARD@MIT-XX.ARPA>


> Biv found that its members were very good at recognizing fine shades
> of blue-green (one of their primary colors) but not as good at
> recognizing fine shades of blue or green (our primary colors). The
> situation was reversed for members of Anglo-American society (note:
> for anyone who's interested I think this was a study by Benjamin
> Whorf; someone will correct me if I'm wrong).
> 

Edward(?) Sapir was Whorf's collaborator, and in linguistics at least did
more of the work.  I don't remember this study -- I thought that Whorf was a
manager of a warehouse full of drums marked ``empty'' and ``full'' (of ether
or something like that).  One of the workmen in the warehouse saw the
``empty'' label and decided that it was safe to tip a cigarette into the
drum...  Whorf, who survived, got rather interested in the subtle
linguistics of meaning.  I'm not aware of any work with anyone else, but
then I'm barely aware of his existence in the first place.

According to my linguistics prof (who did _not_ survive, although he didn't
survive something else) Sapir and Whorf's work has been largely discredited.
I can't remember who did it; I think that Chomsky had a lot to do with it.

A lot of their data was slightly screwy.  For example, one of their (I
think) students did an analysis of Trobriand linguistic categories, and
discovered all kinds of fascinating things -- e.g., the Trobrianders have no
sense of linear time, but use cyclic time and gestalt grasping of patterns.

Unfortunately, the only Trobriand texts the student had were transcriptions
of religious and magical rituals.  People who actually talked to
Trobrianders discovered that they thought very much like Europeans.

I might be able to get a reference on this story (at least, if it's true),
if anyone is interested.  I'll have trouble getting more detail on
Sapir-Whorf being discredited, unless there's a friendly necromancer on the
network. 

> Anyone who's interested
> in this might want to check out "The Savage Mind" by Claude
> Levi-Strauss. 

Anyone who has a year or three, that is.  (This is the one that discusses
several thousand myths, no?)

Bard "The MathAnthrope"
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