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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: *est-holes*
Message-ID: <1730@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Sep-85 23:24:51 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1730
Posted: Tue Sep 17 23:24:51 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 19-Sep-85 03:59:38 EDT
References: <3787@cornell.UUCP> <914@oddjob.UUCP> <1339@utcsri.UUCP> <1596@pyuxd.UUCP> <1359@utcsri.UUCP>
Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
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[Thanks, Ray, for the confirmation about "Moonwebs".]

>>I wonder if people who talk about the "psychological process by which the
>>Moonies massage people's minds into suitable form" think that this is a
>>technique unique to "cults" and other such groups (political, religious,
>>etc.) rather than something that goes on in our everyday lives.  Is
>>"deprogramming" nothing more than "reprogramming"?  I'm not denying for one
>>split second the manipulativeness, shrewdness, or deceptiveness of such
>>groups.  I'm just mentioning that a lot of the values promulgated by society
>>are perpetuated in much the same way.  The Moonies and such just have to cram
>>THEIR re-programming into one weekend instead of a lifetime.[ROSEN]

> You are definitely on to something here.  Freed makes many comparisons ...
> ... with the events that led to Hitler's rise to power.
> 	I think that we all are "brainwashed" by the society we live in.
> We probably would have a great deal of trouble functioning in a day-to-day
> manner if we did not understand the basic culture, morals, and mores of our
> society.  The important difference between our "normal" society and the
> ones of the cults is that ours offers space for self-determinism.  The
> cults attempt to force an individual to submit his will to their (the cult's)
> desires.  Freed sums this up by saying:  "Among cult members personal
> philosopy changes from 'I think, therefore I am' to 'I obey, therefore I
> am'".  Of course the issue of self-determinism is already being hotly
> debated in other articles.... [RAY ALLEN]

The question may be, does our society offer us the most freedom that is viable
in a society, or does it at times unnecessarily restrict for no better reason
than that the society runs better where conformity and "order" are the rules
of the day.  (A discussion like this, on what I've called "minimal morality
and non-interference in personal lives and freedoms is going on in
net.philosophy.)
-- 
"I was walking down the street.  A man came up to me and asked me what was the
 capital of Bolivia.  I hesitated.  Three sailors jumped me.  The next thing I
 knew I was making chicken salad."
"I don't believe that for a minute.  Everyone knows the capital of Bolivia is
 La Paz."				Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr


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