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From: richardt@orstcs.UUCP (richardt)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: A social disease -- references
Message-ID: <10000010@orstcs.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 20-Sep-85 00:47:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: orstcs.10000010
Posted: Fri Sep 20 00:47:00 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Sep-85 10:25:49 EDT
Organization: Oregon State University - Corvallis, OR
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Nf-ID: #N:orstcs:10000010:000:4393
Nf-From: orstcs!richardt    Sep 19 20:47:00 1985



<all hail the mighty line-ea<munch, munch>

>Richard Threadgill (orstcs!richardt) rambles on about:
>> ... studies that ... link Porn and violence.
>Explain. Is that an established cause/effect?

A number of studies indicate some link between pornography and violence.
Would-be pornography censors chose to see this as a cause/effect relationship.
I personally disagree with this line of reasoning, however dealing with this
issue alone could take several articles.  My point is still valid regardless
of whether or not this is a causal relationship.

>> Pornography does not, in and of itself, cause violent and anti-social 
>> behavior.
>I agree with your argument but this is vaguely reminicent of the NRA --
>"Guns don't kill..." [I favour much stronger gun control.]

To the extent that it goes, the NRA argument is accurate.  However, there
is a very fundamental difference between pornography and guns:  guns can
be dangerous simply because someone doesn't understand them, whereas porn
is only dangerous in the hands of a (mentally) sick individual -- be they
male or female.

>> Most Men (and Women, for that matter) have Submission/Domination fantasies,
>> of one variety or another.  
>Wait a minute. As I say to my (computer science) theory instructors: "Prove it."

A reasonable amount of psychological research bears this statement out,
although I couldn't site exact sources at this time.  However, perhaps I
should have qualified this.  The actual situation is closer to: Most people
have Submission or Domination fantasies of one form or another at some point
in their lives.  This in itself is an (apparently minor) psychological 
aberration in itself.  However, these fantasies usually remain just that:
fantasies.  BTW, you might note the S & M jokes going past on net.jokes as
an example of this.

>> I do know that far too much of the world population is very sick.
>So I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

True.  You, Me, a large number of Social Scientists, and a lot of SF writers
ave been maintaining this for while.  Unfortunately, it looks like they're
right.

>> ... banning Pornography, or Guns, or Alchohol ... will not work. 
>Perhaps licensing? All of these three (vices) are currently regulated by
>age. You have to take a driver's test, right? There surely are no gun
>tests. Is it unreasonable? (seriously).

The problem with licensing: it works almost as well as outright ban.  For 
example, if licensing were effective we wouldn't have teenage alchoholism,
children getting blown away when playing with real guns, or 12 year olds going
to 'R' rated movies.  And you wouldn't have driving-without-a-license 
citations.  Actually, I believe some gun licensing agencies do require that
you show a minimum competency with a weapon, as well as the no felonies, etc.
regs.

>> ... this society is doomed.  I just hope that interstellar colonization 
>> becomes viable before civilization collapses around our ears.  It may be 
>> a cop out, but I'm taking the first slow boat out.
>This is seriously pessimistic. Too bad I agree. If they're selling tickets,
>save me a seat.
>/David Luner

Actually, even though this society is heading for the dump at warp speed,
this planet, race, and (to a very limited extent) culture may have some 
chance of surviving.  We'll see if the paranoids blow up the world before
population pressure finally starts fighting back.  Of course, the new plague
may be hitting in a way which was unexpected... The degenerative diseases are
showing up more often, as well as the fact that Acquired Immune Deficiency
Syndrome (the ever popular AIDS) is rapidly reaching epidemic proportions.
If these bring down the population pressure enough, the world may have a 
good chance of survival.  I suspect that Earth is something of a dead end
however.  That isn't pessimistic;  It's just time for humanity to start
growing up.

				orstcs!richardt
				"The Apparition"
Richard Threadgill
104 S 20th 		<-- SnailMail address soon to be changed
Philomath Or 97370 

"All of them are in tune, the ones who really love you,
	walk together outside the wall
 Some hand in hand,
	Some gathered together in bands;
 The bleeding hearts, and the artists
	Make their stand
 And when they've given you their all,
	Some stagger and fall
 After all, it's not easy,
	Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall"
			-Pink Floyd, "The "Wall"


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