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From: robert@fear.UUCP (Robert Plamondon)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: pornography, censorship
Message-ID: <269@fear.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 22-Sep-85 14:35:31 EDT
Article-I.D.: fear.269
Posted: Sun Sep 22 14:35:31 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Sep-85 10:30:44 EDT
References: <2529@watcgl.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Weitek Corp. Sunnyvale Ca.
Lines: 83

In article <2529@watcgl.UUCP>, jchapman@watcgl.UUCP (john chapman) writes:
> I'd like to make a few points about the ongoing porn/censorship
> debate.
> 
>  { pre-point : when I say porn below I am not talking about films
>    books etc. showing consenting adults enjoying themselves.
>  }

When you recursively redefine pornograpy as "that subset of
pornography of which I disapprove," you're not fooling anyone.

> 1. Everyone seems to operate under the assumption that freedom of
>    speech is a yes/no situation - it' either there or it isn't.
>    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that in
>    the US the publication of anything that counsels sedition is
>    censored and/or prohibited.

Really? "Burn the Senate! Burn the Senate!"....looks like you're
wrong.

  Assuming this is true it seems
>    a reasonable proposition - at least there don't seem to be
>    many people arguing for the right to publish seditious material 
>    - it protects the general welfare.  Is the publication of what
>    is generally considered "classified" material not censored or
>    prohibited.

No, it isn't. Once classified information is out, it's out.
Prosecution is generally for STEALING the documents. Not the same
thing at all.

>    ...It seems to me we are not talking
>    about whether or not to introduce censorship into our society
>    but rather whether or not it should be extended to a very
>    particular/limited form of publication. 
>  
>    Why do people think that the interests of such a complex "thing"
>    as our society are best, or even adequately, served by simplistic
>    black and white rules?  Life is much more complex so why should
>    our laws be so simpleminded and inflexible?

Rather than having these stupid laws rule us, we should have the rule
of wise men, like you. You could guide us, protect us, invade Poland
with us...

> 2. Freedoms generally also entail responsibilities as well.  We,
>    for example, have freedom of movement but not the freedom to
>    move by vehicle while intoxicated.  If we are to have freedom
>    of speech should we not also have commeasurate responsibilities
>    as to it's use?  Why should freedom of speech allow anyone to
>    promulgate hatred and violence towards any identifiable group
>    (e.g. women)?  

Absolutely! The free flow of ideas is only beneficial when these
ideas have been approved by the benevolent and wise people in our
society.

>    Here in Canada there have recently been convictions of individuals
>    on the basis of their publishing material which they knew to be
>    false and which was designed to encourage hatred of an identifiable
>    group.

How lovely for you.
 
> 3. What is really so difficult about admitting that women do not
>    enjoy being beaten, whipped, raped or killed and that
>    any publication which promotes the idea that they do is both
>    lying and promoting hatred and violence towards women and thus
>    is beneath the contempt of civilized society and should not
>    therefore enjoy constitiutional protection?

Yes, my leader! To the concentration camps with the scoundrels!
 
> 4. Perhaps some people do not believe there is a direct causal link
>    of the form "he read the book and it caused him to go out and
>    rape".  Maybe there isn't. I don't know. ...

But you're not the kind of person to let your lack of knowledge stop
you from prescribing drastic action, are you?
-- 

		Robert Plamondon
		{turtlevax, resonex, cae780}!weitek!robert


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