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From: barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Porn and Rape: a social disease
Message-ID: <1165@ames.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 26-Sep-85 03:18:49 EDT
Article-I.D.: ames.1165
Posted: Thu Sep 26 03:18:49 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Sep-85 08:22:17 EDT
References: <10000008@orstcs.UUCP> <547@lasspvax.UUCP>
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA
Lines: 53

From Cheryl Stewart (lasspvax!cheryl):
>Oh, and the Tobacco industry has maintained for years that no causal
>relation between cigarrette smoking and lung cancer has ever been medically
>demonstrated.  Sure, the sociological studies have only shown a high 
>statistical correlation between pornography and rape in neighborhood-
>by-neighborhood studies.

	Please expand this statement. I am unaware of these studies. Indeed,
the recurring porn discussion has always seemed starved for facts when
relationships between porn and violence are asserted. Other than repeated
references to the Donnerstein study, this is the first time I've seen anyone
mention any actual references. I, and probably others, would be deeply
appreciative of more information.

>So I believe that our educational system is at fault, for 
>teaching people to listen, see and believe -- rather than to
>read, analyze and question.  It's not the sellers of porn
>that are indirectly causing rape, it's the buyers who 
>allow their values to be influenced by pornography.
>
>Anyone care to disagree?

	Only a little; couldn't find a word in favor of censorship in your
article, so you're OK by me, Cheryl. But I have an observation: if you feel
that lack of education is the problem, I think you ought to concentrate more
on informing people of the *facts* about the "dangers" of porn, and save the
personal opinions for your summation. This is not meant to be a flame
at you, but a general plea to all those who assert a link between porn
and violence for more evidence. The link is *not* obvious.
	Does anyone beside me see a parallel between the distaste many modern
feminists have for porn, and the support given to the temperance movement by
an earlier generation of feminists? The motives seem similar; the feminist
argument against liquor was based on the role that liquor plays in such things
as family violence, and violence against women, generally. The biggest
difference I can see between the anti-porn and anti-liquor movements is that
the temperance folk had a much solider case. The connection between excessive
alcohol consumption and such crimes as rape and spousal abuse *does* seem
obvious to me, while the connection between rape and porn does not.
	Perhaps there is a point to be made here. Suppose someone *did*
document a correlation between porn and sexual violence, similar to the
obvious (to me, anyway) correlation between alcohol abuse and violence of all
sorts. Would this be sufficient grounds for banning it? If so, should this
logic be extended to alcohol?
	The above questions are not addressed to Ms. Stewart particularly,
since she's expressed no desire to ban anything, but to the readership as a
whole.
	Incidentally, I'm not in favor of outlawing liquor.

-  From the Crow's Nest  -                      Kenn Barry
                                                NASA-Ames Research Center
                                                Moffett Field, CA
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