Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!ucbvax!spp From: spp@ucbvax.ARPA (Stephen P Pope) Newsgroups: net.women,net.politics Subject: Re: A suggestion for a ground rule in any pornography debate Message-ID: <10503@ucbvax.ARPA> Date: Mon, 30-Sep-85 19:33:06 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.10503 Posted: Mon Sep 30 19:33:06 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 2-Oct-85 06:21:08 EDT References: <5660@tekecs.UUCP> <1873@reed.UUCP> <10285@ucbvax.ARPA> <2265@mnetor.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 79 Xref: watmath net.women:7574 net.politics:11268 > Sophie Quigley > The point I was making (clearly I thought) was that there is not ONE > feminist position on censorship of pornography. What I've noticed > from reading feminist litterature is that this issue is creating a > split in the feminist community. The next point I was making is that > "the media" has been ignoring the voices of anti-censorship feminists. > (I did say both of these things. I don't know how much clearer I can > make my point). Therefore, all I was trying to say is that you shouldn't > rely on the popular media to get a deep understanding on feminist ideas, > just like you shouldn't rely on the popular media to get an understanding Yes you stated these points clearly. My own (limited by your standards) exposure to feminist writing on pornography hasn't given me the impression that there is much PUBLISHED by feminists who take the position that censorship is a far worse evil than pornography. Perhaps such views are expressed in private forums. If so it's time to give them more press. > All I would like is for anti-censorship people to say: > "yes we realise that pornography hurts, but we really don't think that > censorship is going to solve the problem" instead of "if pornography hurts > you, it's because you are sexually repressed and you simply want to impose > your prudishness on other people". All I would like is some more compassion, I happen to not believe that pornography hurts. I allow that there is a small fraction of society who feels harmed by it. My compassion extends to most such people, but I find some of the pro-censorship attitudes repulsive, whatever their cause. > >>And I think the above is a cheap shot. Who are you to decide > I don't know about "people like me" and their attitudes, but I don't see > why you had to make personnal attacks against people who had a different > opinion from yours. > Maybe you felt threatened by them... I'll retract the statement in question since it does come off as a personal attack. I maintain however that my analogy between homophobes and pro-censors does APPEAR to explain certain pro-censor attitudes. And damn right I feel threatened. I see the pendulum swinging further and further to the right. I don't like it, and, and after a brief and polite interval of initial patience, I'm not likely to have much compassion for anyone defending the actions of the extreme right-wing. > You see, you are doing it again: you are refusing to listen to other people's > opinions on pornography. Some pornography is obviously hateful of women. Why > are you refusing to admit this? Admitting this does not entail that you have > to be pro-censorship. I suggest that if you delinieated what you find "obviously hateful" about some pornography, I would find that 99 percent of what you describe results from your personal objection to depiction of certain sexual practices. This assumes your objections are along the lines of those of Gloria Steinham, Susan Griffin and others. > One would hope that people who care about these issues would care enough > to distrust the media's portrayal of (anything in general, but more > particularly) the feminist community's opinion on the matter. That is > probably very wishful thinking however. I tend to think that I am entitled to my opinions even if I have no knowledge of whether the opposition is a vocal one percent of self-described feminists or the entire population of the country. Seriously, perhaps I am not totally familiar with the various feminist positions on pornography. Perhaps you, Sophie, are not totally familiar with the history and practice of censorship in the U.S. Feminist writings you no doubt would never advocate censoring would indeed be censored if the situation reverted to that of the early twentieth century. Why help turn back the clock? ANY form of censorship requires empowering someone to decide what should be banned. Nobody should be given that power. steve pope Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com