Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site cbsck.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!cbsck!pmd From: pmd@cbsck.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: "The child of a fiend" Message-ID: <1332@cbsck.UUCP> Date: Sun, 6-Oct-85 20:58:15 EDT Article-I.D.: cbsck.1332 Posted: Sun Oct 6 20:58:15 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 8-Oct-85 03:33:23 EDT References: <5986@cbscc.UUCP> <5@uscvax.UUCP> <6032@cbscc.UUCP>, <450@mhuxr.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories , Columbus Lines: 105 A response to Marcel Simon: >> Paul Dubuc: >> >> Who *is* psychologically prepared to handle the trauma associated with >> being the victim of rape? Does abortion really lessen the trauma? >> Might not it add to it. The woman *is* the mother of the child (though >> not a willing one) and the child that is being stigmatized is hers >> as well as his. Could abortion possibly add to the trauma of rape >> in some cases? > >We don't know and will never know. Although your argument is valid on its >face, I can also see the horrible scenario when the violation a woman has >had to endure is visited upon her daily over some twenty years of raising >this so very unwanted child. Should *she* not be the one to decide? > >What should the woman tell the child who asks "where/who is my father?" >How does the woman, especially if she lives in a small town, deal with >acquaintances and neighbors who know of the circumstances of conception? What does she tell her if daddy was a bank robber, or a drunk or a child molester? Do we really find any additional justification in saying that a child ought not to live because *we* would find it hard to tell her certain things. Is the child going to look her mother in the face and say, "Gee, Mom, you should have aborted me for having such a horrible father."? I know a woman from a small town who married a black man. The people in that town attach certain stigmas to blacks and to their daughter. What would you tell this couple when they want to go and visit her parents? There are plenty of people who have to deal with the uncomfortable presence of bigotry. We usually recognize it for what it is and don't advocate giving it any respectability by accommodating it. Does the child of a rapist merit the social stigma any more that any other child? >Yes, abortion might be the psychologically worse option. The point is *you >don't know that*, the *woman* does. The pro-choice stand is that *she* >should decide what to do with this product of her humiliation. I'm wondering if anyone knows. The pro-choice stand puts all the burden on her, that's for sure. I'm mainly driving at what I think is an unfair stigma that is attached to a child conceived under such horrid circumstance. If that stigma were seen as unjust, I think a lot of the certainty it gives about abortion being the right choice in these cases would go away. Assuming the woman needs help in making such a decision after such a terrible experience in her life, how would we help her? Would we dare to suggest that she explore alternatives to abortion? It seems to me that the pro-choice side as practically absolutized the rightness of that particular choice in the case of rape. To choose against it may bring all kinds of flattery about how "good" or brave, or admirable the woman is, but I doubt there would be much substantial support. Such cases do not provide the needed sympathy for abortion "rights" as a whole. The pro-choice films seemed to be using rape for all it is worth in that respect. The film we are discussing, "So Many Voices", was produced by NARAL. >> > If you could overcome those feelings and not >> >let that affect the way you treat the child then you are a good man. >> >Probably, most people are not that good. >> >> Should most people not try to be that "good"? > >But most people cannot be *legally* expected to be this good. Obviously. If you read my whole article, you would know that I wasn't making a legal argument. I'm making a moral argument against what seems to be a perceived virtue in attaching the "child of a fiend" stigma to someone. >> I can somewhat imagine my own daughter in this light. I think that as >> she grew and I got to know her more for who she *is, herself*--seeing >> her run and play, laugh and cry, etc.--I would become more convinced that >> any such association of hate with her would be totally unfounded. I know >> there are couples who have had this experience. The same may be said for >> stigmas that are attached to women and Blacks. We may take them for >> granted when we view such people as objects, but get to know some of them >> and you come to realize that stigmas are foolish. This is not to say >> that the process of overcoming them is easy. It isn't. But since when do >> we judge the right or wrong of such stigmas by their difficulty in being >> overcome? > >You are an admirable man, Paul. But consider what your reactions might be >if this child were to become a rebellious, "problem" child. After all, one >half her genes are totally unknown to you. I don't mean to suggest this will >happen, but what if she gets into some serious trouble? Can you be sure >your reactions will not for a fleeting moment be that "well, at least she is >not mine." Even if you are absolutely certain you will remain a loving >parent, can you legally require every other parent to be as admirable as you? No one can be absolutely certain that they will remain a loving parent with any of their children. I don't think the child of a rapist necessarily has any more chance of becoming a "problem child" than my own natural children would have. If I did have the reaction that you suppose, it still would not be justified in the least, and I think I would have to know that. Again, if you think I'm trying to make this a legal argument, go back and read again the parts of my article that you have not quoted here. >> I think it's important to note that aborting the child and having >> to raise her are not the only alternatives. If the parents are not >> "good enough" to overcome the stigma attached to the child themselves, >> this would be a much lesser burden for adoptive parents. > >There is still the matter of nine months of pregnancy to go through. I haven't overlooked that. But why is the stigma justified in the first nine months?